Supreme Court decision of the day

[floplag 3,169]

On 2/26/2019 at 8:13 AM, mtangelsfan said:

No way the government should ever force any kind of medical procedure on a person.

That being said, I had my boys vaccinated.  

This is a giant slippery slope really.  
I agree that the govt shouldnt be in this in general, but when it becomes a public health issue, dont they kinda have to?  
Look at all the breakouts were seeing of late, how do you deal with that?  you cant isolate them as they would scream violation of civil rights.
What is the greater good or the right thing in that case?

[mtangelsfan 9,444]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

This is a giant slippery slope really.  
I agree that the govt shouldnt be in this in general, but when it becomes a public health issue, dont they kinda have to?  
Look at all the breakouts were seeing of late, how do you deal with that?  you cant isolate them as they would scream violation of civil rights.
What is the greater good or the right thing in that case?

Never when it comes to a forced medical procedure 

[floplag 3,169]

19 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Never when it comes to a forced medical procedure 

So putting the lives of others at risk is OK then?  Isnt that the major responsibility of government to prevent?
Im not championing either side here i just think it isnt as simple as saying govt doesnt belong when this is about as gray an issue as there is on that argument. 

[mtangelsfan 9,444]

2 hours ago, floplag said:

So putting the lives of others at risk is OK then?  Isnt that the major responsibility of government to prevent?
Im not championing either side here i just think it isnt as simple as saying govt doesnt belong when this is about as gray an issue as there is on that argument. 

Not even China does that.  Not on any level should we

[floplag 3,169]

14 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Not even China does that.  Not on any level should we

Im not sure its that black and white, not in this case when a persons carelessness can directly harm another person.  I dont know on this one i really dont. 

[mtangelsfan 9,444]

50 minutes ago, floplag said:

Im not sure its that black and white, not in this case when a persons carelessness can directly harm another person.  I dont know on this one i really dont. 

You understand there are plenty of procedures that could be done in the name of "safety" or "the betterment of society".

[floplag 3,169]

45 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

You understand there are plenty of procedures that could be done in the name of "safety" or "the betterment of society".

Betterment of society isnt the issue, safety from communicable disease is.
Yes there are many but any of them would violate a persons rights in some form, thats the problem.

[Adam 13,151]

So we should ban cars! that would make everyone safer

[Tank 20,668]

20 hours ago, mtangelsfan said:

Not even China does that.  Not on any level should we

i'm going to disagree with you.

a medical procedure - and this might be splitting hairs - sounds more like a surgery (thinking of german forced sterilization procedures preceeding WWII) than getting a vaccination. 

as we've been seeing, kids who aren't vaccinated posed a tremendous public health risk at places like schools, parks, etc. I see a big difference between personal beliefs and public health needs, and that's why i'm absolutely okay with requiring vaccinations for kids who attend school.

if you choose not to vaccinate your child, your option would then be to home school them. endangering the public health of others should never be an option.

[gotbeer 8,427]

F'n Trump.

U.S. Supreme Court refuses to block Trump's gun 'bump stock' ban

[Tank 20,668]

32 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

F'n Trump.

U.S. Supreme Court refuses to block Trump's gun 'bump stock' ban

good move by the SCOTUS.

[RallyMo 4,254]

35 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

F'n Trump.

U.S. Supreme Court refuses to block Trump's gun 'bump stock' ban

 

2 minutes ago, Tank said:

good move by the SCOTUS.

This is all irrelevant. Obama took all the guns away. Remember?

[RallyMo 4,254]

1 hour ago, Tank said:

i'm going to disagree with you.

a medical procedure - and this might be splitting hairs - sounds more like a surgery (thinking of german forced sterilization procedures preceeding WWII) than getting a vaccination. 

as we've been seeing, kids who aren't vaccinated posed a tremendous public health risk at places like schools, parks, etc. I see a big difference between personal beliefs and public health needs, and that's why i'm absolutely okay with requiring vaccinations for kids who attend school.

if you choose not to vaccinate your child, your option would then be to home school them. endangering the public health of others should never be an option.

I've read on the internet that measles doesn't even harm people when they get sick since it's 2019. We're so advanced now. People should welcome it. TRUE FACT!

[RallyMo 4,254]

20 hours ago, mtangelsfan said:

You understand there are plenty of procedures that could be done in the name of "safety" or "the betterment of society".

Such as?

Also, I'm with Tank here.

It's absolutely a person's right to not be vaccinated or to not have their kids vaccinated.

It's everybody else's right to shun them.

[mtangelsfan 9,444]

52 minutes ago, Tank said:

i'm going to disagree with you.

a medical procedure - and this might be splitting hairs - sounds more like a surgery (thinking of german forced sterilization procedures preceeding WWII) than getting a vaccination. 

as we've been seeing, kids who aren't vaccinated posed a tremendous public health risk at places like schools, parks, etc. I see a big difference between personal beliefs and public health needs, and that's why i'm absolutely okay with requiring vaccinations for kids who attend school.

if you choose not to vaccinate your child, your option would then be to home school them. endangering the public health of others should never be an option.

Being forced to put a foreign substance in your body is medical.  

 

[mtangelsfan 9,444]

1 hour ago, RallyMo said:

Such as?

Also, I'm with Tank here.

It's absolutely a person's right to not be vaccinated or to not have their kids vaccinated.

It's everybody else's right to shun them.

Fine with me, I just don't believe in forced medical anything

[Tank 20,668]

5 hours ago, mtangelsfan said:

Being forced to put a foreign substance in your body is medical.  

so you also accept that without being vaccinated, your children will be isolated from a lot of people and places, right?

[mtangelsfan 9,444]

2 hours ago, Tank said:

so you also accept that without being vaccinated, your children will be isolated from a lot of people and places, right?

?

my kids are vaccinated, but I chose that.  Of course there are consequences to any decisions but at least they are ours to make.  For the time being 

[Tank 20,668]

1 hour ago, mtangelsfan said:

?

my kids are vaccinated, but I chose that.  Of course there are consequences to any decisions but at least they are ours to make.  For the time being 

i meant "your" in the generic sense. i was aware the mt household chose to vaccinate their kids.

let's make it read "so people who choose not to vaccinate" instead of "you."

[arch stanton 8,753]

What we’re trying to decide here is the line between proactivity and freedom because they don’t exist well together. Some people are just dead set on learning the same lessons over and over. Every day is a new day. 

My personal preference is to grant a decent amount of freedom with severe consequences for being a stubborn Facking retard. If your non vaccinated kid turns out to be patient zero then you pay all the bills for the others and do jail time for any deaths. You get busted for drunk driving you lose your license for years and second offense for life. Sex crimes call for physical castration

[floplag 3,169]

20 hours ago, RallyMo said:

Such as?

Also, I'm with Tank here.

It's absolutely a person's right to not be vaccinated or to not have their kids vaccinated.

It's everybody else's right to shun them.

ah buts thats where you are wrong, the minute you do that those people claim to have their rights violated.   I agree with you, but that isnt how it will play out. 
Not to mention separate education systems isnt exactly feasible now is forcing them to home school if they cant afford that so... as i said, slippery slope.  

[Tank 20,668]

2 hours ago, floplag said:

ah buts thats where you are wrong, the minute you do that those people claim to have their rights violated.   I agree with you, but that isnt how it will play out. 
Not to mention separate education systems isnt exactly feasible now is forcing them to home school if they cant afford that so... as i said, slippery slope.  

but you can't put those kids into the general population, either. if they're infected, it's rolling the proverbial snowball down the mountainside.

if someone chooses not to vaccinate, they'd better be prepared to financially handle all that that will entail, which includes homeschooling their kid.

[floplag 3,169]

18 minutes ago, Tank said:

but you can't put those kids into the general population, either. if they're infected, it's rolling the proverbial snowball down the mountainside.

if someone chooses not to vaccinate, they'd better be prepared to financially handle all that that will entail, which includes homeschooling their kid.

I agree, however, civil rights folks wont.  
I'm just playing a little devils advocate here as the minute you suggest that anti-vax folks have to do anything that others dont, your going to have a fight on your hands. 

[Tank 20,668]

2 hours ago, floplag said:

I agree, however, civil rights folks wont.  
I'm just playing a little devils advocate here as the minute you suggest that anti-vax folks have to do anything that others dont, your going to have a fight on your hands. 

gotcha.

there's an interesting civil rights issue here that better minds than me can discuss. 

but your civil rights not to vax shouldn't trump over my civil rights not to get sick.

[floplag 3,169]

2 minutes ago, Tank said:

gotcha.

there's an interesting civil rights issue here that better minds than me can discuss. 

but your civil rights not to vax shouldn't trump over my civil rights not to get sick.

Well thats the trick isnt it, how do you weight one right against another?