The Memo

[Rico]

 

[mtangelsfan]

The spin is strong in this thread. 

 

[red321]

so, you see this as nothing more than a partisan battle?

 

[Rico]

It was the Australia tip about George P that triggered the FBI probe, not the dossier. 

The FISA application on Carter Page didn't go through until after he had left the Trump campaign.  

These are facts.

[yvangelfan]

22 minutes ago, Rico said:

Will I do?  A few things to point out.

1. The conservative online news site The Washington Free Beacon originally funded the Steele dossier.

2. It was John McCain that hand delivered the dossier to the feds.

3. The reason the feds took the dossier so seriously was because there was corroboration from other sources.

4.  Carter Page did go to Russia and met with Russian agents.

1. The WFB did not originally fund the dossier. The WFB was  used by Marco Rubio's Donor to begin opposition  research on Trump. After Trump won the nomination, the research ended. Hillary's lawyer contacted Fusion GPS and the dossier was developed by Christopher Steele and Nellie Ohr and probably the British intelligence agency.

2. McCain, the traitor, did hand the dossier to Comey, but Comey already had it.

3.The Feds knew the dossier was fake. They helped develop it. (Bruce Ohr's wife at the DOJ)

4. So what? He's innocent.

[RallyMo]

Look, I think it's entirely possible that the system has been abused. I also think that there's a crap ton more to this in terms of context than we're seeing in a 3.3 page (at best) memo written by members of a single party. If you think otherwise, you're pretty freaking stupid.

[mtangelsfan]

8 minutes ago, red321 said:

so, you see this as nothing more than a partisan battle?

 

I see the truth lying somewhere in the middle, where it usually does with all things politics.  I think it is clear that there was some abuse of power (shocking, I know) and that questionable methods were used to get the warrant. I also don't believe that this was some anti-Trump thing either.  I just think it is what usually happens, someone being a bit dirty to get the warrant, conviction etc.

[yvangelfan]

12 minutes ago, Rico said:

 

Jim Sciutto was employed by the Obama Administration before joining CNN. 

[yvangelfan]

It's being said that this memo is just the beginning of much more to come.

[Rico]

2 minutes ago, yvangelfan said:

Jim Sciutto was employed by the Obama Administration before joining CNN. 

That doesn't change the fact that the Papadopoulos info is what triggered the FBI probe.  It even says so in the memo.

[red321]

3 minutes ago, yvangelfan said:

Jim Sciutto was employed by the Obama Administration before joining CNN. 

And Nunes worked on the Trump campaign and was a member of his transition team...

[mtangelsfan]

Just now, Rico said:

That doesn't change the fact that the Papadopoulos info is what triggered the FBI probe.  It even says so in the memo.

Doesn't change the fact that some shady shit was used to get that warrant either.

[Jason]

19 minutes ago, Rico said:

It was the Australia tip about George P that triggered the FBI probe, not the dossier. 

The FISA application on Carter Page didn't go through until after he had left the Trump campaign.  

These are facts.

True. This ultimately has nothing to do with the Mueller probe. It has everything to do with the FBI and DOJ doing dirty work for the DNC. Regardless of how this is spun, that is a bad thing  and those involved should be held accountable 

[red321]

1 minute ago, mtangelsfan said:

Doesn't change the fact that some shady shit was used to get that warrant either.

You are basing that solely on a highly partisan memo.

You can argue the appropriateness of using some information from the dossier without sourcing it...but I think you also need to take into consideration

* the memo stated information from the dossier was used...but didn't highlight what information, the source of that information, were those pieces of information in the dossier credible, etc.

* Carter Page was known to have been an active target for Russian recruitment for years...there was a lot more information than just the dossier not only used to get approval of the warrant, and reapproval of the warrant.

 

I'm not going to argue the FBI is perfect, or the DOJ. There are absolutely abuses of power. But you have to take into consideration why this "memo" was written and the purpose behind it. If it was about FISA abuses and oversight...by all means...let's have that discussion and have it in an open forum.

That's not why this memo was written, or published.

[mtangelsfan]

Man red, I don't get it.

[well_red]

hilarious that anyone thinks this FISA judge was "duped" by the dossier, because that would mean he is the stupidest judge on the planet.  literally that's his job, to judge the evidence on merit for "probable cause."  absolutely no way a political dossier created by a foreigner for payment was the only evidence used here, it had to be corroborated by something else.  

[red321]

3 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Man red, I don't get it.

what don't you get?

[Kevin]

35 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

So hard libs see it as nothing and hard cons see it as everything.

 

It is shocking, absolutely shocking.

All you need to know about politics today:

 

1. In the 2012 election, the Republican nominee said Russia was the greatest Geo political threat... The democratic president said that the 1980"s called and wants their foreign policy back.

2. Russia eventually annexes Crimea causing a big stir. Republicans point number 1 and say "see." Obama condemns the move and sanctions are placed. Perhaps the Republicans are right?

3. 2016 election happens and suddenly Russia isn't the biggest Geo political threat anymore to Republicans and Democrats are concerned about Russian meddling in the election. Perhaps Democrats are right?

 

It is strange what a difference four years makes and how idiotic both parties are when looking back. Whatever the other side says or does HAS to be wrong and only "our side" has the answers. And then let's flip flop positions in the next election cycle.  

[Glen]

24 minutes ago, yvangelfan said:

Jim Sciutto was employed by the Obama Administration before joining CNN. 

So it should be easy to refute his points then, right?

[fan_since79]

Nobody yet has been able to rebut my proposal to improve the government by pulling the names of 535 adults out of the phone book to fill the House and the Senate.

Just fire the whole lot of them and start over.

 

[yvangelfan]

50 minutes ago, Rico said:

It was the Australia tip about George P that triggered the FBI probe, not the dossier. 

The FISA application on Carter Page didn't go through until after he had left the Trump campaign.  

These are facts.

The dossier was paid for in April '16. The discussion in the bar was May '16.

There shouldn't have been a FISA application request for Carter Page. He was an innocent man.  They were spying on EVERYBODY. That's a fact.

 

[mtangelsfan]

47 minutes ago, well_red said:

hilarious that anyone thinks this FISA judge was "duped" by the dossier, because that would mean he is the stupidest judge on the planet.  literally that's his job, to judge the evidence on merit for "probable cause."  absolutely no way a political dossier created by a foreigner for payment was the only evidence used here, it had to be corroborated by something else.  

It's good to know that judges can't be misled.  

[yvangelfan]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

 

In an interview just now, Nunes said nothing in the dossier was factual, and the dossier was used to open the "investigation".

Fuck Sciutto

[yvangelfan]

The FBI renewed Carter Page's FISA requests 3 times.

The guy was an innocent man.

 

[UndertheHalo]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again I don’t have any faith in the integrity of anything Devin Nunes touches.  Any discussion about this memo should first be predicated with an explanation that Devin Nunes should have been removed from the intelligence committee for disclosing details of an investigation to the very subjects of said investigation.  The guy is a piece of shit and he has zero credibility. Absolutely zero. 

That said, I don’t doubt that there are abuses in the process of acquiring FISA warrants and it’s certainly possible that in this case there were abuses.  I’d like a source to provide details that is completely separated from any committee that includes Devin Nunes.  Maybe we need another special investigator for this matter.  We shouldn’t just look at the Trump investigation either.  Probably, all FISA warrants should be looked at.   In regards to this particular incident.  I think MT probably has it right.   It’s somewhere in the middle.  It can’t be just the dossier that got the warrant.  And again, it’s possible that something wasn’t legit in the acquisition of the warrant. 

That all said.  It’s important to seperate this from Muellers investigation which this memo has nothing to do with.  The Trump camp wants to muddy the water with this shit.  Nothing in that memo puts out any of the raging fires around Trump and his possible (likely even) collaboration with Russian intelligence to manipulate the election. 

Edited February 2, 2018 by UndertheHalo