Messy situation at 1B

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

He had an .866 OPS the 2nd half.  If he does that this year you won’t mind him on the team. 

And Cron had a  .267/.326/.512/.838 slash line in 2nd half, and .231/.290/.500/.790 against LHP

Valbuena had a .213/.320/.546/.866 slash line in 2nd half, and .105/.213/.211/.423  against LHP

Based on those numbers I'd prefer Cron plus he is the better fielder. He may have made a couple errors but he got to balls Luis wouldn't have. Cron also played about twice as many games at first than Valbuena. He is a much improved fielder IMO.

[Stradling]

I prefer Cron, but he only plays first base. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

Man you talk about playing with fire.  It would be insane to stretch out pitchers to go longer in games as a result of a six man rotation.  Insane.

You are begging for players, agents, and fans to put the blame for an injury squarely on management when a guy gets hurt.

Nobody blames management for injuries in 5 man rotations where they don't let pitchers go past 105 pitches.

Seriously this is crazy talk.

No need to let them pitch more than 100 pitches but no need to take them out in the fifth inning either.

I don't think he was suggesting leaving them in for 120 innings like Verlander or 200 innings like Koufax or Ryan either.

[Dick B Back]

25 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I am fine admitting when I am wrong.

Although its in fine print, in the AW users rule book this is not allowed.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I prefer Cron, but he only plays first base. 

If Valbuena is traded Cowart can be the Utility IF and he plays everywhere even a little OF.

[Warfarin]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

I prefer Cron, but he only plays first base. 

This is an important point.  Valbuena can play both corners, which is important in terms of bench flexibility.  And, again, Fangraphs’ stats showed that Valbuena was the superior defender at 1B last season.

[AngelsLakersFan]

I think we need both Cron and Valbuena. Cron is the only legitimate every day first basemen on the roster. Ohtani isn't playing first, Albert is going to try and see how much he can go but don't hold your breath, and Valbuena a platoon bat.

We need a backup for 1B/3B and a left handed bat, that makes sense for LV.

[Dtwncbad]

I just know if the Angels made roster moves to have neither Cron nor Valbuena for 2018, there is almost no chance I would view the moves as mistakes.

[Docwaukee]

there is a difference between having a six man rotation and having your starters pitch every six days.  

a five man rotation doesn't need a 5th starter nearly as often as it needs the other four.  The need for a '6th starter' relative to the other five would be even less on a proportional basis.  It essentially means you don't skip your #5 ever.  Even on off days.  

Our '6th starter' is going to be a combo guys.  At least that's my guess.  Like Bridwell and JC who can give you 3-4 yet provide some use out of the pen when not providing that spot start.  we might even see a couple of our other 5 guys getting the occasional inning between starts.  Like on their bullpen day.  

What I would not like about the idea of pitching every 6th day is if the expectation becomes pitchers getting deeper into games.   i am a fan of pitching twice through the order.  Or at least within reason.  I think you can accomplish pitching once every 6 day and still stick with this if and only if you get the occasional inning from your main 5 every once in awhile as I mentioned.  

To me, that gets a bit complicated.  It also requires optionable bullpen depth.  We'll see how they roll this.  Regardless of their plan, it could all change from day 1 in spring depending on where guys are at etc.

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I think we need both Cron and Valbuena. Cron is the only legitimate every day first basemen on the roster. Ohtani isn't playing first, Albert is going to try and be out or breathe.

Thats better.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

If they can rotate a 6th starter from 2 or 3 of our 8 starters between AAA and Anaheim as needed, we can have a 4 man bench. It's going to be interesting to see how Eppler and Scioscia want to play it.

[Docwaukee]

eye test and metrics support the fact that Cron was better defensively at 1b than Valbuena.  

Cron was actually a really good defender last year.  Something I didn't really expect.  

[Dtwncbad]

Who thinks a 57 yr old Cal Ripken could last longer playing every day at first than Albert?

[Hubs]

Whether or not they need Cron actually comes down to how healthy and productive Cozart is at third.

Cozart averages around 120 games the past few seasons, and I'm sure the Angels want him to basically play 6 days a week and get at least one day off. That's around 130-135 or so starts at third. Valbuena really shouldn't play against lefties, but neither should Cowart.

So, Cozart probably sits against right handed starters only. Valbuena then probably plays 3rd at least once a week. Which opens up one more day a week at first.

So, if Valbuena plays 100 or so games total, only against right handed starters, then 75 or so are at 1st and say 25 or so are at 3rd. That leaves 80-90 games at 1st. I hope Albert can play 1st against all lefty starters, which would be 60 games. That's roughly 2x a week.  That still leaves between 20-30 games at 1st base for another player.

Now, Valbuena can pick up these and then go for 120 games, but also, less conventionally, we could see someone like Kole Calhoun get these games.

Kole is a left handed batter, but not nearly as bad against lefties as Valbuena was last season.

So we have room for a 4th OF, to start perhaps 60 games, 20-30 when Kole plays 1st base, and the other half when Trout or Upton is a DH or any of the three starters get a day off.

 

 

 

 

 

[Docwaukee]

James Caan as Paul Sheldon has more mobility than Albert at this point.  

[Docwaukee]

the other thing to keep in mind is just pure space

backup C

util inf 

4th OFer

you could kill two birds by making Cowart your 4th OFer and util guy.  But he's likely unable to play CF. Then you can keep Cron and Valbuena on the roster.  

So let's say you keep Cron and LVB and add a 4th OFer.  On days where Ohtani is off and Albert DHs, you've got one sub and a backup C.  

It also means that even when guys get a day off, they are likely going to pinch hit and potentially have to play.  That's a lot of additional wear and tear over the course of 162 games.  

CJ Cron is out of options so you can't shuffle him up and down.  

Here's another interesting thing to think about.  

Players with options:

RP - middleton (none of the other RP have any.  Bard is rule 5 so you can't use them).  Guys that are likely to start in AAA with options - Paredes, Felix Pena, Dayan Diaz.  Noe Ramirez has none.  

SP - Bridwell, Trop, Skaggs, Heaney, Shoe

So you have almost no flexibility to send a reliever down and pick up a position player for a few games.  

This is going to get very interesting.  

[Blarg]

2 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

I didn't make anything up and present it as fact.  I stated an actual fact.

Every MLB team, with lots of medical analysis, chooses a five man rotation as the best plan to maximize wins versus injury risk.

That means something to people who think reality matters and that consensus is at least as valid as one link you can find to the contrary.

 

But you can't post anything to back this up. You can try bullying arguments with family and friends but here it doesn't wash. You are stating your opinions as fact in all of the threads you start. 

And falling back on, this is how they are doing it as your basis of proof is weak sauce. They do it partially because that's the way they've done it since the mid '70's after evolving from the four man rotation. That was driven by expansion of the 24 to the 25 man Roster. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.mlb.com/235426794-mets-trying-a-six-man-rotation-for-a-while.amp.html

Last season the Mets went with a 6 man rotation mid season. This season Eppler is serious about moving that direction. And he's not alone. 

Eppler said. “I’ve spoken with some other clubs about that concept, and there’s some other clubs that are considering it. If it can help keep guys healthy and you’re able to get a little bit more reliability out of your pitchers because of it, I’m all for it.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/2017/12/16/mlb-teams-seriously-consider-six-man-pitching-rotations.html

[floplag]

8 hours ago, Hubs said:

The Angels do not have an additional 25-30M in payroll room to absorb Headley (13M) and Morrison. Even if they managed to just flip Headley straight for Valbuena, which is a net negative in my opinion, that would still cost them $5M more.

from what i understand its actually a little less than that do to some issues with how its calculated versus the cap, which i do not think we would exceed for literally anyone.  
Regardless we dont need both, and frankly dont have the roster space for both.  If we get even 1, someone else has to go and we might need to make a tough call regardless as we still need a 4th OF type so someone with more versatility is more likely. 
IF however we could flip Headley for Valbuena, i do it right now.  Its no a negative due to him being a high OBP LF bat if nothing else, something we really need. 

Edit:  forgot to ad, i still dont think Darvish got more than 12-15M at most.  

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, Blarg said:

But you can't post anything to back this up. You can try bullying arguments with family and friends but here it doesn't wash. You are stating your opinions as fact in all of the threads you start. 

And falling back on, this is how they are doing it as your basis of proof is weak sauce. They do it partially because that's the way they've done it since the mid '70's after evolving from the four man rotation. That was driven by expansion of the 24 to the 25 man Roster. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.mlb.com/235426794-mets-trying-a-six-man-rotation-for-a-while.amp.html

Last season the Mets went with a 6 man rotation mid season. This season Eppler is serious about moving that direction. And he's not alone. 

Eppler said. “I’ve spoken with some other clubs about that concept, and there’s some other clubs that are considering it. If it can help keep guys healthy and you’re able to get a little bit more reliability out of your pitchers because of it, I’m all for it.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/2017/12/16/mlb-teams-seriously-consider-six-man-pitching-rotations.html

I’ll respond to this for dtw.  “I’ll believe it when I see it, agents and players won’t like it, teams do it this way to balance wins and injuries, FACT!”

[DMVol]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

Who thinks a 57 yr old Cal Ripken could last longer playing every day at first than Albert?

I think they started elementary school the same year....no matter what Albert’s birth certificate says....

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

I prefer Cron, but he only plays first base. 

Thing though is that Valnobuena barely qualifies as a 3B, and Cron is more consistent against LHP and RHP combined.

I’ve come around to trying to acquire Grandal to back up C and maybe 1B, keep Cron, trade Valnobuena, and let Cowart fill in at 3B when Cozart either gets a day off or plays 2B to rest Kinsler.

With Ohtani already included amongst the 13 pitches (if 6 man rotation), you still have room for 3 bench guys.   Grandal for C/1B (if acquired), Cowart for the INF (sans 1B), and 4th OF

[Warfarin]

2 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Thing though is that Valnobuena barely qualifies as a 3B.

I’ve come around to trying to acquire Grandal to back up C and maybe 1B, keep Cron, trade Valnobuena, and let Cowart fill in at 3B when Cozart either gets a day off or plays 2B to rest Kinsler.

Cheers buddy!  I think of all the various players "available" via trade (rumors have leaked he is on the market), I'd say he's the top fit for our club given our various needs (LH power + OBP discipline, co-catcher with elite framing abilities, backup 1B).

[Jeff Fletcher]

For what it’s worth, I also don’t think the Angels are going to have 6 dedicated starting pitchers on the roster at all times. I think they will have their starters go on 5 days rest most of the time, which will mean the 6th starter gets skipped some of the time there’s an off day.

However, that extra roster spot is going to be changing all the time. Sometimes the 6th starter will still be on the roster, but be an 8th reliever for 4-5 days between starts. Sometimes it will be a position player called up because some other position player has a tight hamstring for a few days. 

In any case, when “building” the roster I think you plan on 3 permanent bench guys and know occasionally you’ll have a 4th. You can’t build with 4. 

[Dtwncbad]

45 minutes ago, Blarg said:

But you can't post anything to back this up. You can try bullying arguments with family and friends but here it doesn't wash. You are stating your opinions as fact in all of the threads you start. 

And falling back on, this is how they are doing it as your basis of proof is weak sauce. They do it partially because that's the way they've done it since the mid '70's after evolving from the four man rotation. That was driven by expansion of the 24 to the 25 man Roster. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.mlb.com/235426794-mets-trying-a-six-man-rotation-for-a-while.amp.html

Last season the Mets went with a 6 man rotation mid season. This season Eppler is serious about moving that direction. And he's not alone. 

Eppler said. “I’ve spoken with some other clubs about that concept, and there’s some other clubs that are considering it. If it can help keep guys healthy and you’re able to get a little bit more reliability out of your pitchers because of it, I’m all for it.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/2017/12/16/mlb-teams-seriously-consider-six-man-pitching-rotations.html

Do you want me to post a link to one of the hundreds of websites that show stats for mlb pitchers that shows mlb teams choose 5 man rotations?

I am not exactly sure what is wrong with you but it's not my problem.

Saying it is a fact that teams choose a five man rotation is a simple statement that needs no "proof" for some blowhard like you to accept.

And save your whining about someone bullying.  Wah.  I am just talking about baseball on a message board.  Quit being a puss.

It makes no difference to me if you are capable of grasping that saying teams use 5 man rotations is fact and not opinion. 

You cite size of roster as a factor.  No shit genius.  Maybe roster size is partly why teams don't carry 5 catchers?

Check out the big brain on blarg.

Now can you discuss pitching and five or six man rotations without being a whiney pain in the ass?

 

[Hubs]

20 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

For what it’s worth, I also don’t think the Angels are going to have 6 dedicated starting pitchers on the roster at all times. I think they will have their starters go on 5 days rest most of the time, which will mean the 6th starter gets skipped some of the time there’s an off day.

However, that extra roster spot is going to be changing all the time. Sometimes the 6th starter will still be on the roster, but be an 8th reliever for 4-5 days between starts. Sometimes it will be a position player called up because some other position player has a tight hamstring for a few days. 

In any case, when “building” the roster I think you plan on 3 permanent bench guys and know occasionally you’ll have a 4th. You can’t build with 4. 

That makes sense to me, but I even think it's one step further than that with 4 permanent starters and 2 swing starters.