Messy situation at 1B

[Dtwncbad]

I know the Angels can go into 2018 with the pieces they have and just see what happens at 1B and DH.

But the whole situation seems messy enough to still make a transaction to clarify/clean it up.

I am not very optimistic with a few of the details of the status quo.

1). I don't want to rely on Valbuena hitting better than .200.

2). I want to believe Cron has another level of production to show us, but I don't believe it.

3). We have no idea if Ohtani can hit.

4). We don't know how many games Pujols can really play at 1B, and we also don't know if there is another drop in his production at the plate coming in 2018.

Given those four concerns, I would like the Angels to do something to reduce the risk.

What would you do?

[arch stanton]

I’d let it ride. Early on they shouldn’t be counted on too heavily to carry the offense since the other black holes have been filled. 

Valbuena can get some ABs at third resting Cozart and also resting Kinsler with Cozart sliding over to second. Cron can take most of the ABs at first except for the 2 days a week Pujols pays there. 

[Second Base]

16 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I know the Angels can go into 2018 with the pieces they have and just see what happens at 1B and DH.

But the whole situation seems messy enough to still make a transaction to clarify/clean it up.

I am not very optimistic with a few of the details of the status quo.

1). I don't want to rely on Valbuena hitting better than .200.

2). I want to believe Cron has another level of production to show us, but I don't believe it.

3). We have no idea if Ohtani can hit.

4). We don't know how many games Pujols can really play at 1B, and we also don't know if there is another drop in his production at the plate coming in 2018.

Given those four concerns, I would like the Angels to do something to reduce the risk.

What would you do?

I think shoring up 2B, 3B and LF with Kinsler, Cozart and Upton should protect us from the risk of uncertainty at 1B.

The big thing right now is versatility. Because we are operating with only a three man bench, and two of those will be a backup catcher and 4th OF, it means the last man on the bench has to be able to play multiple positions. Cozart acts as the backup at SS and 2B, so our last bench player has to be able to play 1B and 3B.

There simply aren't a ton of those out there, and seeing as we have a cheap one that hits left handed and has power, it looks like we'll be rolling with Valbuena. And if it's any consolation, metrics indicate he was a better than .200 hitter last year.

Also, if Eppler's right about playing Pujols twice per week at 1B, we'll probably only see him there 60 games this year, which means there are 100 games left to cover at 1B. If we figure 80 of those games will be vs RHP, Valbuena is a great option. 

The other 20? My idea is a bit outside the box, but I'd grab a RH 4th OF (or just let Hermosillo fulfill this role), stick that player in RF and move Calhoun to 1B for those games.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

Trade Valbuena, Cron hits RHP better than LHP and both better than Valbuena did last year and Valbuena can't hit LHP at all. Cron is the best fielding first baseman we have also. Let him play there until at least the All Star break without demoting him and let him know it from the start that they will live or die with him until then. They gave Espinosa 77 games at 2B last year before they released him and he was worse than Cron.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

3 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

The big thing right now is versatility. Because we are operating with only a three man bench, and two of those will be a backup catcher and 4th OF, it means the last man on the bench has to be able to play multiple positions. Cozart acts as the backup at SS and 2B, so our last bench player has to be able to play 1B and 3B

Valbuena can play 2B in a pinch, but I'd much rather trade him and let Coward be the utility IF, he can play all the IF positions even SS in a pinch but if Cozart moves to SS Cowart best position is 3B. He has even played a little OF at AAA. Pretty sure he can hit better than the .199 Valbuena had last year and his defense is way better also.

I still like Revere for the 4th OF. He has played all the OF positions, and has had some clutch PH for us. He can also PR and steal a base for you. Maybin can also but I think he would cost more and probably wants a starting job.

[Second Base]

4 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Valbuena can play 2B in a pinch, but I'd much rather trade him and let Coward be the utility IF, he can play all the IF positions even SS in a pinch but if Cozart moves to SS Cowart best position is 3B. He has even played a little OF at AAA. Pretty sure he can hit better than the .199 Valbuena had last year and his defense is way better also.

I still like Revere for the 4th OF. He has played all the OF positions, and has had some clutch PH for us. He can also PR and steal a base for you. Maybin can also but I think he would cost more and probably wants a starting job.

You'd trust Cowart with 100 starts at 1B? 

[Dtwncbad]

16 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

I’d let it ride. Early on they shouldn’t be counted on too heavily to carry the offense since the other black holes have been filled. 

Valbuena can get some ABs at third resting Cozart and also resting Kinsler with Cozart sliding over to second. Cron can take most of the ABs at first except for the 2 days a week Pujols pays there. 

I think the Angels will let it ride.

But my fear is, with the pieces we are staring at right now, the Angels are a decent bet to be last in the league in 1B/DH production.

I am concerned.

[Dave Saltzer]

I'd say that this is a much lesser concern than adding another solid rotation piece and another bullpen arm that I'd let it ride as is until those holes are fixed. 

[Homebrewer]

I'd feel much better with Nobuena completely out of the equation. Scioscia has a long recognized propensity to over-play and misuse guys like him.  

[Stradling]

8 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I think the Angels will let it ride.

But my fear is, with the pieces we are staring at right now, the Angels are a decent bet to be last in the league in 1B/DH production.

I am concerned.

With a six man rotation they really can’t sign another DH/1B.  They’ll have a four man bench, catcher, OF, utility infielder, corner infielder.  Your 4th outfielder will need to be able to play CF, so that’s probably not the DH or 1B answer.  We’re already paying Valbuena, he’s probably the corner infielder.  I’m not even sure where Cron fits in.  Basically we have to hope that 2nd half Valbuena is what we get.  He had a decent OBP and a very good OPS (866) in the 2nd half.  

[Chris]

Sign Bartolo Colon on a 1 year pillow contract.  Convert him to 1B.  The guy can swing a bat.  Make him a part time DH/RHP.  He also has the right body type to play 1B.

Have him retire and go into the HOF as an Angel.

 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

29 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

You'd trust Cowart with 100 starts at 1B? 

Did I say that? I said he could be the utility IF. Cron and Pujols would play 1B. If he had to play 1B I'm sure he could though. He is young has good range and a solid glove with soft hands. With the upgrades at 2B, 3B, and LF we could afford a lesser bat at 1B.

[Second Base]

Cron will be traded. I think that's going to happen. Probably for a starter that can be optioned down to AAA

[Second Base]

2 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Did I say that? I said he could be the utility IF. Cron and Pujols would play 1B. If he had to play 1B I'm sure he could though. He is young has good range and a solid glove with soft hands. With the upgrades at 2B, 3B, and LF we could afford a lesser bat at 1B.

There isn't room on a 3-man bench for Cron AND Cowart unless the Angels go to a 5-man rotation.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 minute ago, Scotty@AW said:

Cron will be traded. I think that's going to happen. Probably for a starter that can be optioned down to AAA

doubt it.

[Dtwncbad]

How about finding a way to have Chase Headley on the roster instead of Valbuena?

[Angel Oracle]

I'd trade Valnobuena, except that only leaves two LHH's with any real playing time (Calhoun and Ohtani), and one of them hasn't hit against MLB pitching yet.  

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

6 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

There isn't room on a 3-man bench for Cron AND Cowart unless the Angels go to a 5-man rotation.

I said trade Valbuena. But the sixth starter and some bullpen pitchers could take turns going back and forth to AAA as needed and carry 4 bench players.

[Dtwncbad]

For the record I don't believe they really go with an actual six man rotation.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 minute ago, Angel Oracle said:

I'd trade Valnobuena, except that only leaves two LHH's with any real playing time (Calhoun and Ohtani), and one of them hasn't hit against MLB pitching yet.  

Yeah but Cron hits RHP better than LHP so what difference does it make. Valbuena hit .199 against RHP as a left handed bat. Cron hits better than that. Cowart is a switch hitter and better from the left side.

[Docwaukee]

The heavy lifting of this off season is done for us.  One of the few teams that can say that and we had some serious holes to fill.  Eppler and co. are likely very comfortable going to battle with the current roster but you just know he's eyeing some upgrades that could be had on the cheap.  

So he's put himself in a fairly enviable position of suddenly being one of the prettiest girls at the dance that's mostly a sausage fest.  

Cron is an obvious trade candidate, but likely doesn't have a ton of value.  That said, the market is playing out nicely for a team with some redundancy at 1b.  With Moreland, Matt Adams, Yonder Alonso and Carlos Santana already off the board there are only a couple guys left equivalent in value to Cron.  In fact, outside of Hosmer, it's really only Morrison likely to command more than a 1yr deal.  The rest; Reynolds, Napoli, Valencia, and Lind are likely one and done but capable.   Hosmer is in a different category but frankly, he's in Boras no man's land right now.  I think he'll eventually end up in SD but who knows.   

Other suitors for 1b?  Well that's the nit of course.  There aren't many.  

TB - arguable

NYM - do they go with Dom Smith?  probably although are likely a candidate for a 1yr guy.  

SD - top candidate for Hosmer.  Would they move Myers to the OF for Cron?  doubtful.  

STL - unlikely to move Carpenter off of 1b.  

COL - definitely a candidate to upgrade 1b and Cron would actually be a great fit to really bust out here.  

and that's really about it.  

So teams aren't going to overpay for him by any stretch.  We're likely better off keeping him unless there's a decent reliever coming back which I would doubt.  Another though would be to try and grab a decent upper minors potential replacement for Kinsler next year.  

In general though I think Cron becomes part of 'bubble' guys whether it's for going out or coming in.  My guess is that there is both SP and RP on that list as well.  Billy is going to wait this out and grab some opportunities to bring more value to the system. 

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

There isn't room on a 3-man bench for Cron AND Cowart unless the Angels go to a 5-man rotation.

Won’t it be a 4 man bench?  8 everyday players, 6 starters, 7 relief pitchers, that leaves four spots.  

[Hubs]

They do need a right hander on the bench, so I'm thinking it will be someone who can play 1B and all three OF positions. Or Kole Calhoun will have to get used to moving in to replace Valbuena at 1st if they bring in a lefty. (And the reserve OF pinch hits, then plays RF for Kole).

Valbuena was truly awful against lefties last year. AWFUL. He only managed 47 PA against lefties in a total of 5 starts. In those 47 PA, he hit to a .423 OPS, with a .105 BA and a .213 OBP plus .211 SLG. Luckily most starting pitchers are right handed.

In 2016, he actually hit to a higher average against lefties than righties, .267 to .258. Yet, his OBP was higher against righties, and showed more power against righties too. But his .741 OPS against lefties was about what he managed in 2017 total. He hit to a .841 OPS against righties in 2016.

Let's hope he gets back to his 2016 numbers against righties in 2018. Against lefties, I think Pujols is the primary 1st baseman. But even if Pujols is basically a DH again, the right handed Cron isn't a platoon type player either.

 

 

 

[Hubs]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Won’t it be a 4 man bench?  8 everyday players, 6 starters, 7 relief pitchers, that leaves four spots.  

9 Everyday players, 6 starters and 7 relievers is 22. Three Spots.

[Hubs]

Ohtani is effectively a 4th bench when he is not starting as a pitcher or a DH, but he is a DH only type, so he really only can pinch hit, not come in defensively.