Manny Machado

[krAbs]

I like how the consensus of the board is we shouldn't go after him, but there are two camps of no: 1) he's not worth what we'd give up, and 2) what we'd give up isn't enough to get him. I suspect the orioles are going to have a disappointing offseason trying to deal him.

[tdawg87]

I think it's both. 

We need the pitching more than we need Machado for 1 year. The O's also need Machado (or whatever else they can get for him) more than they need our pitching. 

[ettin]

25 minutes ago, Dave Saltzer said:

Who wouldn't love or dream of doing this? Only a few problems--we need a 3B, and Manny says he wants to play SS. If he's cool with playing 3B long term, that's a big difference. Second, the only way I'd do this is if I had a good idea that I can sign him long-term. The only way to do that would be to backload his contract to get around Pujols' contract. But, by that point, Trout will need a new contract and Ohtani will be getting a bit expensive. Maybe Ettin can model the payroll, but, I'm not sure that we can fit his expensive contract into our long-term payroll. Finally, who represents Manny? If it's Boras, there's no way he won't test the FA market.

The easiest way we convince Manny to stay here is to give him a big long-term contract but front-load it through 2020 and then give him one or more opt-out's. We get young, in-his-prime, Machado for 2018, 2019, and 2020 and then let him sail off to greener pastures. If you pay him $40M per year in 2019 and 2020 you are literally giving him every reason to opt-out after 2020 is concluded and then he's off the Angels payroll and we can reset.

In free agency I think Machado winds up at about $420M over 12 years ($35M AAV). The Angels could accommodate that but they would almost certainly have to creep over the Luxury Tax a bit in 2019 and 2020 which Moreno said he would do for the "right player". Of course in Moreno's mind he just got the right player in Ohtani and maybe wants to simply focus on Trout and that is perfectly fine. However from a payroll perspective we still haven't gone out and spent that money on Arte's "right player" yet.

I'm splitting hairs but I'm just saying Ohtani was a 1 in 30 chance to land in our laps so clearly Moreno had other intentions when he made the "right player" comment (i.e. he was willing to spend money in the right scenario).

[Rico]

Not for a rental.  If he agreed to an extension, heck yeah!  But don't see that happening.  

[Dave Saltzer]

The more I think about this, the less I like the idea of trading the pitching to land him, even assuming we had what it would take. 

 

One interesting byproduct of this is maybe the Machado trade market puts a damper on what Moustakis can get on a deal.

[Blarg]

Machado doesn't help the Angels move forward past 2018. That is a wasted use of resources so please stop the fixation.

[Stradling]

Just now, Blarg said:

Machado doesn't help the Angels move forward past 2018. That is a wasted use of resources so please stop the fixation.

Eric it’s the thick of hot stove/winter meetings.  I actually agree with you but dude, stay out of threads if you’re just going to tell people to stop discussing these things.  

[laagamer]

55 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

I’m not sure why so many here are trying to trade Skaggs 

Because he's done jack shit. 

[krAbs]

1 minute ago, laagamer said:

Because he's done jack shit. 

dat curve tho

[Tyler]

1 minute ago, laagamer said:

Because he's done jack shit. 

 

And because he says thing like 'lit'. 

[Chuck]

18 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Eric it’s the thick of hot stove/winter meetings.  I actually agree with you but dude, stay out of threads if you’re just going to tell people to stop discussing these things.  

@Blarg during the hot stove...

[floplag]

the guy wants to play SS, i think hes freaking nuts but hey, to each their own.  We dont need a SS so its going to be moot.  

[Troll Daddy]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

the guy wants to play SS, i think hes freaking nuts but hey, to each their own.  We dont need a SS so its going to be moot.  

His tune will change we he becomes a FA 

cash is king 

[Cdaniel]

I can seethe Padres making a move for Machado....especially if they sign Hosmer.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

Supposedly he wants to play SS so between that and the cost to acquire him I don't see it as a good match.  He isn't going to play SS here, you don't trade for him unless you've got a good shot to extend him and that's not going to be cheap.  I think there's other moves the team can make which given their cost will be more beneficial in both the short and long term.

[Blarg]

27 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

@Blarg during the hot stove...

 

I'm just not into mental masturbation over players that are not a fit for the team. I'm pretty sure Eppler and company are spending zero minutes discussing Machado and spent about the same time over Stanton. It's not productive for this team with a long term goal.

[Blarg]

9 minutes ago, Cdaniel said:

I can seethe Padres making a move for Machado....especially if they sign Hosmer.

They just Chased Chase.

[Chuck]

1 minute ago, Blarg said:

I'm just not into mental masturbation over players that are not a fit for the team. I'm pretty sure Eppler and company are spending zero minutes discussing Machado and spent about the same time over Stanton. It's not productive for this team with a long term goal.

Yeah I didn't waste too much of my time thinking about Stanton either. In the end the guy never wanted to be here, so Fungal to him and I hope the Yankees finish in last place. 

Machado would be great, but only if he signs an extension for the next 3 years (Trout's window here) so we can make the Angels Great Again. 

[Turd Ferguson]

It will be interesting to see where he ultimately goes and for what. There aren't many matches for him at SS, as far as I can see. I don't see many contenders with two cost controlled SP to spare and a need at SS. I don't see him going to the ALEast bc of Angelos. Dodgers have Seager, Astros have Correa, Cleveland has Lindor, Mariners have so many MI that they have to stick one in CF, Nats have Turner, Cubs have Russell/Baez. That's not to say those teams couldn't get creative to accommodate him at SS.

My guess is the Cards; however, if rumors about Ozuna heading there are true, that could complicate the equation depending on what they give up. I could also see the Giants as possibility and Arizona as a dark horse. Twins, Brewers, Pads could be in the mix as well but, again, how much would those teams want to give up for a rental?

[UndertheHalo]

The only player I want the Angels giving 400 million to is Mike Trout.

 

[Cdaniel]

6 minutes ago, Blarg said:

They just Chased Chase.

Machado to play SS.

[ettin]

5 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I'm just not into mental masturbation over players that are not a fit for the team. I'm pretty sure Eppler and company are spending zero minutes discussing Machado and spent about the same time over Stanton. It's not productive for this team with a long term goal.

Was acquiring Simmons an obvious fit when we still had Aybar? We still traded Aybar and prospects for Simmons? Just because it isn't an obvious fit doesn't mean it can't happen if it fits into the puzzle Eppler is trying to solve.

I understand that you believe these players are not in our wheel house and you may very well be right (in fact probably so). For instance I think Christian Yelich is completely our of our reach but I don't try to shut down anyone who brings it up, I simply point out the very high price it would take to acquire him over and over (are you listening @totdprods ? ).

Acquiring and extending Machado I think would be very difficult to do. Also acquiring him long-term in free agency next year will be very hard to do. Giving him a long-term contract with opt-out's is something the Angels could do but it would still be difficult to pull off. Again it is all very hard and we might be better off spreading that money around at 2B, 3B, and in the bullpen for instance.

It's fun to talk about as long as everyone understands the likely constraints and challenges involved and understand that from a probability perspective the Angels chances are probably less than 10% and probably closer to less than 5% in regard to Machado.

[CanadianHalo]

4 minutes ago, ettin said:

It's fun to talk about as long as everyone understands the likely constraints and challenges involved and understand that from a probability perspective the Angels chances are probably less than 10% and probably closer to less than 5% in regard to Machado.

[beatlesrule]

22 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I'm just not into mental masturbation over players that are not a fit for the team. I'm pretty sure Eppler and company are spending zero minutes discussing Machado and spent about the same time over Stanton. It's not productive for this team with a long term goal.

Did you forget what position MM plays?  He can say he wants to go to SS but he can't outright refuse playing 3rd.

[Warfarin]

5 minutes ago, ettin said:

Was acquiring Simmons an obvious fit when we still had Aybar? We still traded Aybar and prospects for Simmons? Just because it isn't an obvious fit doesn't mean it can't happen if it fits into the puzzle Eppler is trying to solve.

I understand that you believe these players are not in our wheel house and you may very well be right (in fact probably so). For instance I think Christian Yelich is completely our of our reach but I don't try to shut down anyone who brings it up, I simply point out the very high price it would take to acquire him over and over (are you listening @totdprods ? ).

Acquiring and extending Machado I think would be very difficult to do. Also acquiring him long-term in free agency next year will be very hard to do. Giving him a long-term contract with opt-out's is something the Angels could do but it would still be difficult to pull off. Again it is all very hard and we might be better off spreading that money around at 2B, 3B, and in the bullpen for instance.

It's fun to talk about as long as everyone understands the likely constraints and challenges involved and understand that from a probability perspective the Angels chances are probably less than 10% and probably closer to less than 5% in regard to Machado.

I agree, and truthfully, it's prudent for our FO (or any FO really) to be proactive and address holes before they become urgent needs.  The acquisition of Simmons is a great example, as we didn't really have a need at the moment, but look at the end result - we have the best defensive player in the game, locked down at a discount for several more years.

One area that I'd like to be proactive about is catcher.  I know we have Maldonado, but he's a FA after this year and is on the wrong side of 30.  I am all for keeping Maldonado, but I would like to proactively search for catching talent, as you never know when a catcher will suddenly lose his defensive edge, given how grueling the position is.  Who that target might be, I'm not sure, but the Dodgers are a good place to start looking, as they are absolutely stacked with major and minor league catching talent.