Mariners acquire 2B Dee Gordon

[Stradling]

Just now, Calzone said:

You don’t know that. It was a salary dump. Dipoto jumped at the opportunity to claim more pool money. The Mariners didn’t even need Gordon. We do.

So you think that because we needed him the price would be less than what the Mariners paid?  Oh ok.  

[Docwaukee]

Gordon is the definition of a one dimensional player.  Speed is his everything.  Entering his age 30 season and that goes away sooner than later.  I bet he's batting 9th before the 2018 season is over.  

Can't tell you how happy I am that we aren't adding Gordon.  I think we can do so much better.  

Frankly, Eppler likely had an easy opportunity to add him and declined.  Makes me that much happier with the job Eppler is doing.  It's not always the moves you make, but the ones you don't.  

Not a lot of mention about Dipoto further decimating the M's farm system.  Fast approaching the bottom 5.   

[Ohtaniland]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

So you think that because we needed him the price would be less than what the Mariners paid?  Oh ok.  

No the price would’ve been the same. The possibility of losing out on Ohtani because of this deal will make it a double whammy because we could’ve filled two needs with one deal. 

[UndertheHalo]

If Otani wants to be an Angel and a million bucks in pool money is the separator don’t worry about it.  Eppler will get the million bucks. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Calzone said:

Well Stradling, Gordon would’ve been a perfect fit for us at second base and that trade would’ve netted us an additional $1M in pool money that Dipoto would’ve then had to go search for. 

It certainly appears that Gordon was just sitting there ready for the taking and it’s not like there was a long term train wreck contract attached to him. Eppler missed an opportunity there. 

The Mariners did give up 3 prospects, including 2 of their top 10.

[Tank]

17 minutes ago, Calzone said:

If we end up with someone at second base that’s better than Gordon I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I just can’t see how Gordon wouldn’t help improve our team. We’ll leave it at that.

I'm not arguing that he wouldn't have helped the team. My point is that there is probably a fair amount behind the scenes that you and I don't know about into why the Angels didn't get him, and it's not necessarily because Eppler screwed up.

[Ohtaniland]

1 minute ago, Tank said:

I'm not arguing that he wouldn't have helped the team. My point is that there is probably a fair amount behind the scenes that you and I don't know about into why the Angels didn't get him, and it's not necessarily because Eppler screwed up.

Fair enough. I trust your judgment Tank. 

[VariousCrap]

7 minutes ago, Calzone said:

No the price would’ve been the same. The possibility of losing out on Ohtani because of this deal will make it a double whammy because we could’ve filled two needs with one deal. 

I definitely agree that if trading for Gordon would have guaranteed the Angels would sign Ohtani, you do it.  I think everybody agrees with that.

However, if you make that trade like the M's did and if they don't end up getting Ohtani, well, that trade just bit you in the balls.

Let's hope the Angels get Ohtani and Jerry gets bit in the balls. 

[UndertheHalo]

6 minutes ago, Tank said:

I'm not arguing that he wouldn't have helped the team. My point is that there is probably a fair amount behind the scenes that you and I don't know about into why the Angels didn't get him, and it's not necessarily because Eppler screwed up.

In Calzones world it’s always because the Angels screwed up.  This is exactly the type of deal we listen to this guy rage about all the time.  They avoid it and magically it’s what the Angels should have done. 

Gordon would have improved the Angels.  

Any replacement level 2b would have improved the Angels.  It’s a pointless point.  The Angels don’t have the prospect depth to throw away on guys like Dee Gordon. And again, it’s crazy to think this is a do or die deal for Otani.  If we need the million for Otani we’ll get it for less then the price we would have paid for Dee Gordon.

Edited December 8, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[Ohtaniland]

3 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The Mariners did give up 3 prospects, including 2 of their top 10.

Thanks Jeff. I just hope we have a better plan for second base than we’ve had in prior years. 

[Second Base]

2 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Gordon is the definition of a one dimensional player.  Speed is his everything.  Entering his age 30 season and that goes away sooner than later.  I bet he's batting 9th before the 2018 season is over.  

Can't tell you how happy I am that we aren't adding Gordon.  I think we can do so much better.  

Frankly, Eppler likely had an easy opportunity to add him and declined.  Makes me that much happier with the job Eppler is doing.  It's not always the moves you make, but the ones you don't.  

Not a lot of mention about Dipoto further decimating the M's farm system.  Fast approaching the bottom 5.   

I don't find this to be true as much as I find it to be an Angels fan's take. Like when the Rangers signed Beltre and I would tell anyone who would listen he'd be a subpar DH in two years.

Gordon's BEST tool is speed, yes. And that does go away with age, yes. But not at 30, not from one as fast as he is. At 33 or 34, yeah it'll be halfway if not more gone by then. But Gordon is also a very solid contact hitter and that won't go away. He's also a "plus" defender at 2B. 

My guess is he's a below average CF this year, and Cano is a statue at 2B and the M's end up moving Gordon over to 2B and Cano to DH. Offensively, Gordon will likely be pretty solid for another two years.

But yes, that farm system is awful. I'm not an expert in theirs, but I know a little about it, and it's considerably worse than ours.

But that's Dipoto's MO. He puts together high priced teams with minimal depth that look great on paper, but without any farm whatsoever, they aren't sustainable teams and must spend their way out of the holes they dig themselves in. Meanwhile the major league team underperforms but he's so damn charming the media doesn't blame him for it.

Seattle is due to have one really good year, as we had in 2014. But I think anyone that watched the Angels collapse in on themselves repeatedly could tell you history is repeating itself and the common factor here is Dipoto.

He makes splashes, he doesn't make smart moves. He'd be great at fantasy baseball.

[VariousCrap]

14 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

If Otani wants to be an Angel and a million bucks in pool money is the separator don’t worry about it.  Eppler will get the million bucks. 

 

That is what I'm thinking.  If an extra million is that important, Eppler will figure it out.

[Docwaukee]

15 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

I don't find this to be true as much as I find it to be an Angels fan's take. Like when the Rangers signed Beltre and I would tell anyone who would listen he'd be a subpar DH in two years.

Gordon's BEST tool is speed, yes. And that does go away with age, yes. But not at 30, not from one as fast as he is. At 33 or 34, yeah it'll be halfway if not more gone by then. But Gordon is also a very solid contact hitter and that won't go away. He's also a "plus" defender at 2B. 

My guess is he's a below average CF this year, and Cano is a statue at 2B and the M's end up moving Gordon over to 2B and Cano to DH. Offensively, Gordon will likely be pretty solid for another two years.

But yes, that farm system is awful. I'm not an expert in theirs, but I know a little about it, and it's considerably worse than ours.

But that's Dipoto's MO. He puts together high priced teams with minimal depth that look great on paper, but without any farm whatsoever, they aren't sustainable teams and must spend their way out of the holes they dig themselves in. Meanwhile the major league team underperforms but he's so damn charming the media doesn't blame him for it.

Seattle is due to have one really good year, as we had in 2014. But I think anyone that watched the Angels collapse in on themselves repeatedly could tell you history is repeating itself and the common factor here is Dipoto.

He makes splashes, he doesn't make smart moves. He'd be great at fantasy baseball.

Comping Gordon to Beltre in terms of their situation is apples to oranges.  I liken Gordon to Figgins actually.  And Gordon has poorer plate discipline.  

Gordon probably gives us a couple of good years but becomes that ugh guy that we should replace but don't because we don't want to eat the money. 

I think the M's are nuts for trying to convert him.  Flat out dumb.  He's a gold glove 2bman.  Honestly, if they were smart, they'd eat a little cash and flip him to a team like the Brewers or Mets.  To me that's a real possibility.  I could see Jerry talking up how he's their CFer but he actually had every intent of just getting the Intl money and then flipping Dee post hoc.  

I have a hard time seeing that good year out of the M's.  Their starting pitching is pretty bad.  Their offense will be good, but at what point do we start to see cracks in Nelson Cruz and Cano dropped a 112 ops+ at age 34.  Is that going to get better or worse? 

[beatlesrule]

Why the hell are we arguing about what the M's did?  It's not like Gordon was our only option.  I admit I was wrong when I stated that it wouldn't take much to get Gordon.  Granted, the M's got back money but even if the Angels gave up just a tad less, Gordon is still not worth that when there are like 5 more good options available out there.  Breath of the Wild just won game of the year and the 2nd DLC is now available plus the Angels are still in on Ohtani.  It's a night to rejoice!!

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, beatlesrule said:

Why the hell are we arguing about what the M's did?  It's not like Gordon was our only option.  I admit I was wrong when I stated that it wouldn't take much to get Gordon.  Granted, the M's got back money but even if the Angels gave up just a tad less, Gordon is still not worth that when there are like 5 more good options available out there.  Breathe of the Wild just won game of the year and the 2nd DLC is now available plus the Angels are still in on Ohtani.  It's a night to rejoice!!

I don't think Dipoto makes such an odd move unless it seals the ohtani deal.  I'd like to be wrong, but as much as I hate Dipoto, I don't see him acquiring a 2bman to play CF and absorbing that money unless it was the last thing to get a deal done.  He's arrogant.  Not stupid.  

[Tyler]

Dipoto is the type of guy to make a move for his backup plans. He does a billion transactions hoping one works out.

[beatlesrule]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I don't think Dipoto makes such an odd move unless it seals the ohtani deal.  I'd like to be wrong, but as much as I hate Dipoto, I don't see him acquiring a 2bman to play CF and absorbing that money unless it was the last thing to get a deal done.  He's arrogant.  Not stupid.  

I guess time will tell.

[bloodbrother]

6 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I don't think Dipoto makes such an odd move unless it seals the ohtani deal.  I'd like to be wrong, but as much as I hate Dipoto, I don't see him acquiring a 2bman to play CF and absorbing that money unless it was the last thing to get a deal done.  He's arrogant.  Not stupid.  

That's my thinking too

[Troll Daddy]

 

I really hate this move

Gordon is projected for 1.5 WAR at second base, and will be paid more than what we could have re-signed Dyson for. DiPoto continues to completely torch the farm. Obviously if we get Ohtani all is forgiven. But the most Mariners possible outcome would be to make all these moves and then not get him.

Lookout Landing 

[DMVol]

8 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I don't think Dipoto makes such an odd move unless it seals the ohtani deal.  I'd like to be wrong, but as much as I hate Dipoto, I don't see him acquiring a 2bman to play CF and absorbing that money unless it was the last thing to get a deal done.  He's arrogant.  Not stupid.  

Arrogant people frequently do stupid things....

[ettin]

8 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I don't think Dipoto makes such an odd move unless it seals the ohtani deal.  I'd like to be wrong, but as much as I hate Dipoto, I don't see him acquiring a 2bman to play CF and absorbing that money unless it was the last thing to get a deal done.  He's arrogant.  Not stupid.  

 

2 hours ago, bloodbrother said:

That's my thinking too

 

So Dipoto made one move last off-season that I didn't agree with in terms of price: Jarrod Dyson for Nate Karns (1 year of control for 6 years of control).

He did it because, as @Inside Pitch or @Dochalo said in a different spot here in the forum, he wanted to improve his outfield defense (and let's not forget he did this in Anaheim too) and Dyson is an incredible fleet-footed outfield defender across all three positions.

For some reason Jerry apparently didn't believe that Jarrod was going to stay in Seattle and looked for a replacement. Deciding that he can convert Gordon to do the same job is a bit nuts on some level but Gordon is sort of a Dyson clone except he doesn't have Jarrod's immense outfield experience which could easily cause this whole idea to come crashing down on Dipoto.

On top of that Jerry knows what our team needs are and decided that by making this move he could possibly cut our knees off (at least in his head he thought that). Frankly there are several other teams we could still talk too about acquiring their remaining bonus pools for low level prospects from our system. I don't think this move was as decisive as Dipoto thinks it is and his conversion project will not be as smooth as he wants it to be.

He's not as smart as he thinks he is by  half.

[Dtwncbad]

I am not 100% convinced Gordon stays with the Mariners.  He may get flipped.  I think it makes SOME sense that starting Gordon in CF is the backup plan to a plan we don't know about, and may never know about.

It's just too weird to be a primary plan you commit to before the Winter Meetings even start.

I understand getting the additional money for Ohtani but I think he could have achieved that other ways.

So I am still watching. . .

[JarsOfClay]

8 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I don't think Dipoto makes such an odd move unless it seals the ohtani deal.  I'd like to be wrong, but as much as I hate Dipoto, I don't see him acquiring a 2bman to play CF and absorbing that money unless it was the last thing to get a deal done.  He's arrogant.  Not stupid.  

Dipoto is stupid, very stupid.  He's more interested in making headlines than making sense.

Dipoto is doing exactly what he did to the angels in his brief stint here, bloat the payroll while gutting the farm in a desperate attempt to have a winning season while destroying your teams future in the process.  

Im so glad he's gone.  Now he's the mariners problem.

[Docwaukee]

maybe this is just another example of Jerry thinking he's the smartest guy in the room.  I hope so.  

[Tank]

let's not forget he also got some international money in this deal. that might have more of an impact in his thinking than merely acquiring gordon and playing him out of position.

it might also be a sign to ohtani that they're serious about getting him and not just going through the motions.