I'm going negative....

[Angels#1Fan]

I've seen a lot of bad Angel teams over the years but some of those teams were at least fun to watch in terms of some of the players like Jim Fregosi, Ryan and Tanana or Jim Abbott and Tim Salmon. Even if some of those teams were bad there was still enough entertainment to watch and keep you interested.

The Angels of 2017 thus far are painful to watch and except for Trout definitely no fun to watch. The offense in particular is just awful, it's inning after inning of waiting for a hit. It's really exasperating to see them get a couple of guys on and then the bats just go silent. And the injuries the last couple of years to the pitching is just staggering.

Maybe it's just me, maybe I've seen way too many Angel games, maybe I'm tired of all of the Winston Llenas' and Josh Hamilton's that have passed through but I'll continue to watch like I always have but it just doesn't seem as fun as it used to be. 

[Troll Daddy]

Maybe it's just me but I thought the last two games were very fun to watch. 

[Glen]

Angels are 1-0 since Doc went negative. This is better than a closed-door team meeting.

[Stradling]

21 minutes ago, Angels#1Fan said:

I've seen a lot of bad Angel teams over the years but some of those teams were at least fun to watch in terms of some of the players like Jim Fregosi, Ryan and Tanana or Jim Abbott and Tim Salmon. Even if some of those teams were bad there was still enough entertainment to watch and keep you interested.

The Angels of 2017 thus far are painful to watch and except for Trout definitely no fun to watch. The offense in particular is just awful, it's inning after inning of waiting for a hit. It's really exasperating to see them get a couple of guys on and then the bats just go silent. And the injuries the last couple of years to the pitching is just staggering.

Maybe it's just me, maybe I've seen way too many Angel games, maybe I'm tired of all of the Winston Llenas' and Josh Hamilton's that have passed through but I'll continue to watch like I always have but it just doesn't seem as fun as it used to be. 

I totally get what you're saying.  The game has changed over the years as well.  Because of advanced statistics you don't see as many stolen bases or hit and runs.  Guys strike out a ton more than they ever have and there are very few sacrifices.  It's a lot of waiting around for the big hit.  We actually have a team that can run and put pressure on the other team on the bases.  Problem is those are the same players that have to make contact and get on base and they simply aren't doing that at a good enough rate.  

[Angelsjunky]

I also feel your pain, @Angels#1Fan, but I think @Stradling has it right: it is changes in the game itself, more than the Angels. Scioscia's 2004-09 Angels were, in some ways, a throw back to the hit-and-run approach of the 80s. But overall the game now is one of percentages, based upon what statistically works over large sample sizes. I can't help but feel that the game on the field has been diminished for it.

In my view, the game of the 70s and 80s was a perfect balance: there was a bit of everything. You had guys hitting for high averages, 40+ HR, and tons of stolen bases. This changed with the Roid Era of the 90s, and even more so in the last couple decades as the game has narrowed.

I would also disagree that Trout is the only exciting player. Maybe on offense, but Simmons is a highlight reel in the field. I also can't but enjoy watching Kole, because he reminds me of a player from the 50s.

[eligrba]

The problem is not the Angels or Scioscia, it is the expectations.

[jchalos89]

Well.. If we look at how this team has been spending, it will be a miracle if this team is doing something positive.

We gave Gary Matthews Jr. $50M for 5 years. He was averaging 0.250 and 10 HRs for his entire career except for one good 2006 season. Of course, after signing with the Angels, he averaged exactly around his career average (0.248 and 30HRs in 3 seasons) with the Angels and we dumped him.

We traded Juan Rivera and Mike Napoli for Vernon Wells. He batted 0.222 with the Halos while Mike Napoli became a clean up hitter, batting over 0.300 and crushing 30 long balls. On the other hand, the catcher we decided to keep instead of Napoli, Jeff Mathis, batted 0.174 for whole f'n season and crushed 3 long balls. After 2 seasons, we traded Wells to Yankees but Angels paid for majority of his salary and we spent around $80M for that crap for 4 years.

We signed Albert Pujols, who absolutely had been legendary. But he was 32 years old and had 2 worst seasons of his career in St.Louis before coming to the Angels. We gave him 10 year contract and his contract is still only half way to be done.

We traded 4 prospects including 2 of top 5 at that time (1 being Jean Segura) for Zach Greinke. Then, we used him for 2 f'n months and let him walk out as an FA. Greinke had his prime with Dodgers and recorded 51-15 with 2.40 ERA for following 3 years. Also, Jean Segura, the top prospect we basically threw away for nothing, became an All-Star at the age of 23 and batted 0.319 last season, and batting 0.313 this season with Mariners.

We signed Josh Hamilton, also 32 years old like Albert Pujols and Vernon Wells, who had awful 2nd half of the last season with Rangers. He was an MVP candidate until May, and started struggling from June and literally sucked until the season's end but the Angels decided to sign him no matter what, and look at how the result turned out to be and how much money the team is spending on that shit still.

We signed CJ Wilson and wasted $20M for nothing last season, but he had 51-35 record with high 3s ERA in 4 seasons before he got injured so his contract is not as bad as the ones above.

Yes I understand bad contracts happen. I understand athletes are always in danger of injury. But if all those god damn bad contracts all happen in one decade, (if we take GMJ out, they happened in almost half decade) surely the team will be blown up. We have a devastated farm, shit loaded up salary cap, and no player with more potential to improve on our roster. This team will be painful to support for awhile. If you are going to support with logic, I think it's better for your mental health to find other team to root for. But you know, liking a team has nothing to do with logic usually. Even though you know they will suck balls, you still can't help rooting for them. That's why I've been going to their games and rooting for them while all those bad times and I think you will be with me and other guys here to support this bad team

 

[Jobu]

The only problem with that way of thinking is the economics. Angels have a lucrative TV contract (despite bottom 1/3rd ratings), ownership is not leveraged, the market regularly purchases 3M tickets (how many are used and what they do while they're there...), league revenues are healthy, and the stadium deal is quite generous. The Angels have the payroll to compete and they've borked it up with repeated bad deals. They aren't alone in doing that, but it's still on them, and it can't be shrugged away by saying "oh well, they used to suck in the 70's".

[Angels#1Fan]

2 hours ago, eligrba said:

The problem is not the Angels or Scioscia, it is the expectations.

I think expectations and some of the changes in the game as mentioned have led to some of my personal feelings about the current Angels team. The problem for me is not so much the losing but the way in which we lose. The last couple of years the perception of just rolling over without a fight is all to common. When the season started I said it would be a miracle if Garrett Richards made it out of ST and it wasn't wise to count on him. Well he made it out then had a season ending cramp. The problems with the starting rotation weren't addressed seriously imo unless installing several blowout patches is the acceptable procedure.

I realize that all of the problems with the team can't be addressed all at once, but it's been a long time and nothing of any real substance has been done about second base or left field. We still have those holes in the team along with the closer spot being a new problem with Street and Bedrosian out. It's gotten to the point that when a starter goes 5 innings we're happy..that's just nuts. 

As I said in my previous post I'll still watch the Angels because they are my favorite team, I've been a fan too long to change, but imo the product on the field is boring as hell and no fun to watch.

 

 

[Skankhunt42]

7 hours ago, eligrba said:

The problem is not the Angels or Scioscia, it is the expectations.

Because we expect major league players to play like major league players?

[Bruce Nye]

It's hard for me to put the blame on Scioscia with half of the pitching staff on the DL.  Yesterday's game could easily have been a W, with Bedrosian, Street and Bailey back.  With a lousy farm prospects and budgetary constraints (from prior year's poor decisions), I cannot see how a Joe Maddon could make a difference.  He went to the Cubs who are loaded with talent from nice draft picks over the years from their poor finishes.  

 

I agree with Adam and his "bad cycle" comment.  

[Homebrewer]

19 minutes ago, Bruce Nye said:

It's hard for me to put the blame on Scioscia with half of the pitching staff on the DL.  Yesterday's game could easily have been a W, with Bedrosian, Street and Bailey back.  With a lousy farm prospects and budgetary constraints (from prior year's poor decisions), I cannot see how a Joe Maddon could make a difference.  He went to the Cubs who are loaded with talent from nice draft picks over the years from their poor finishes.  

 

I agree with Adam and his "bad cycle" comment.  

The Cubs poor finishes weren't a product of injuries or bad luck, the poor finishes and high draft picks were part of a plan.

The Cubs brought in their season ticket holders and beat writers and explained to them what they were going to do and why they were going to do it. There would be years of losing, but while that was happening they would be pouring money into facilities and development personnel in the minor leagues.They got rid of every veteran FA type and used that money to revamp their developmental system. They lured the best baseball minds they could find with big money and a chance to be a part of something special.

Joe Maddon was the last piece they brought in, once the plan that was conceived and implemented years earlier, started to bear fruit.

And it all started with a change in ownership and philosophy.. 

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

It's April and Scioscia is the Angels manager. I had zero expectations.

Just like every other month. 

[Jay]

On 4/23/2017 at 10:40 AM, Glen said:

Angels are 1-0 since Doc went negative. This is better than a closed-door team meeting.

Angels are 0-1 since this post. Thanks Glen.

 

[Inside Pitch]

7 hours ago, Homebrewer said:

And it all started with a change in ownership and philosophy.. 

Theo was the right guy for the job.    He has pretty much cemented his place in the HOF having ended the curses of two of MLB's Tiffany franchises.

[Angel Oracle]

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 7:22 AM, CALZONE said:

Arte's plan....

Sign Bryce Harper when he becomes a FA and trade Trout for a boatload.

Followed by Harper going full blown Hackilton on us, and the boatload turning into the boatload that the Fish got for Cabrera.

[Angel Oracle]

How many HOF power-hitters have ever had as exaggerated of a crouch at the plate as Pujols has had?   That right there would seem to cry out vast decline.

That much crouching for that long can't be good on the legs.   

[California Cajun]

On Saturday, April 22, 2017 at 5:24 AM, Billy_Ball said:

Time to re-assert your dedication and persistence because your team is out of the conversation in terms of a signature team and relevance.   Let's get back in the conversation. 

[Docwaukee]

this thread is not allowed to be below the 'special' thread.  

we're ok for now since a non-angel fan bumped it.  but beware and be safe.  

the rule is that we have 16 minutes between bumps if performed by a halo fan.  

If we are in violation, it results in a loss.  Every 16 minutes there after is an additional loss.  

[Blarg]

On 4/23/2017 at 0:04 AM, Homebrewer said:

Absolutely. Look at Jason Heyward who worked without a break all winter, to remake his entire approach from the ground up, after he had a disappointing 1st year with a new team and a huge contract.

Albert did nothing like that back then, and now it's too late.

Arte has been a failure at estimating character and commitment in his big money signings..

Pujols, Hamilton and CJ..

 

Pujols has come to every spring training after recovering from surgery except for the one season when his tendon in his foot tore negating the need for surgery. I takes a shit load of commitment to go through Physical Therapy every off season to be able to be on the starting day roster. 

Hamilton and CJ didn't show that level of commitment to be able to lace them up, Pujols is not to be compared with them.

 

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

this thread is not allowed to be below the 'special' thread.  

we're ok for now since a non-angel fan bumped it.  but beware and be safe.  

the rule is that we have 16 minutes between bumps if performed by a halo fan.  

If we are in violation, it results in a loss.  Every 16 minutes there after is an additional loss.  

Just doing my part....   bump

[Docwaukee]

goddamit

[Brandon]

On 4/24/2017 at 4:28 PM, Angel Oracle said:

How many HOF power-hitters have ever had as exaggerated of a crouch at the plate as Pujols has had?   That right there would seem to cry out vast decline.

That much crouching for that long can't be good on the legs.   

i'm sure he has crouched more in bed banging chicks.

his decline is not because of his batting stance. he's not the first nor last player to decline rapidly.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

On 4/22/2017 at 1:10 AM, Dochalo said:

Our #4 hitter whiffs on 3 pitches in a critical situation and is hitting .203.  Pretty much his standard for April with the halos.  

Pujols is leading the AL in RBIs,

 

On 4/22/2017 at 7:35 AM, CALZONE said:

Oh and the pitching is still all over the place.

Our starting pitching is probably around 2.0 ERA over that last 2 weeks plus. The bull pen has been great considering the injuries to key relievers.

 

On 4/22/2017 at 7:35 AM, CALZONE said:

2 miraculous wins and we are still 7-11.  

5 game win streak (13-12) now and the Angels are having maybe their best April in Decades.

[eligrba]

5 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Pujols is leading the AL in RBIs,

 

Our starting pitching is probably around 2.0 ERA over that last 2 weeks plus. The bull pen has been great considering the injuries to key relievers.

 

5 game win streak (13-12) now and the Angels are having maybe their best April in Decades.

Does this mean I have to put away my torch and pitch fork?