Arte has an answer for your critics.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

http://m.ocregister.com/articles/arte-704980-moreno-xxxx.html

[AngelsFanSince86]

So he won't spend because they "don't want to invest that kind of money", but its "not about the threshold".  In my mind that either contradicts itself or it means Arte will never spend on the FA market again except for on the bargain bin guys because its not about the threshold, but more so about giving out contracts to top players.  

[Lou]

So he won't spend because they "don't want to invest that kind of money", but its "not about the threshold".  In my mind that either contradicts itself or it means Arte will never spend on the FA market again except for on the bargain bin guys because its not about the threshold, but more so about giving out contracts to top players.  

Read it again. He didn't say he would never spend on the top  FA guys. 

 

" The reality is it's a business. And right now the economics don't add up for us to go invest that kind of money."

The Angels have a payroll of about $165 million, and Moreno told MLB.com his operating budget is for a payroll of less than $150 million.

 

“We have a budget,” Moreno said. “And every year, I’ve overspent our budget.”

 

 

Right now. There comes a point where you just have to stay within your budget in order to run a profitable business.  

Edited February 20, 2016 by Lou

[laagamer]

We took a shot payroll wise and didn't win a World Series. Now we're paying for that.

[tdawg87]

Time to start operating under a budget right after cashing in on that TV deal.

[bloodbrother]

Doing the best we can is the slogan for 2016

[Jobu]

Why did Arte refuse to speak with anyone but MLB reporter?

[gotbeer]

Pretty much what I've been saying.  The Cap was a smokescreen. 

 

The Opening day balances were the more accurate 'budget'.

 

2016 around $172 or $144 if you subtract Hamilton

2015 $146

2014 $154

2013 $137

2012 $151

2011 $141

 

Of course the bad thing is.

 

2017 $134 4 players 11 arbitration minimums

2018 $116 4 players 13 arbitration minimums

2019 $110 3 players 11 arbitration minimums

2020 $99 3 players 6 arbitration minimums

 

So if he is saying that the $140 maybe $150 a year is his budget.  We are in for a load of hurt.

[gurn67]

Yeah, but look at the bright side, he'll have 34 million more to spend in 2021 when Trout goes somewhere else to play for an owner committed to winning a World Series..

[VariousCrap]

Add these comments to his comments at his big yacht party and it is clear that making a profit every year is more important to him than winning the World Series.  It is his team and his choice.  We just have to deal with it.

[AngelsFanSince86]

Read it again. He didn't say he would never spend on the top  FA guys. 

 

" The reality is it's a business. And right now the economics don't add up for us to go invest that kind of money."

The Angels have a payroll of about $165 million, and Moreno told MLB.com his operating budget is for a payroll of less than $150 million.

 

“We have a budget,” Moreno said. “And every year, I’ve overspent our budget.”

 

 

Right now. There comes a point where you just have to stay within your budget in order to run a profitable business.  

 

No, I get that.  But that means there is definitely a threshold for them. Its just not the same one everyone is talking about (luxury tax). Its their budget.  I just found it contradictory to say it wasn't about a threshold while simultaneously saying it was about a threshold.  I'm just being nit picky.

[Guest]

Arte.

Edited February 20, 2016 by failos

[TroutBaseball]

There's a part of me that still doesn't believe him when he says he has budget concerns.

I'm glad he has appeared to learn the lesson after Matthews/Wells/Pujols/Hamilton. But it doesn't add up that Eppler would want this job if he knew he would have to cut salary and have no farm system.

[ukyah]

There's a part of me that still doesn't believe him when he says he has budget concerns.

I'm glad he has appeared to learn the lesson after Matthews/Wells/Pujols/Hamilton. But it doesn't add up that Eppler would want this job if he knew he would have to cut salary and have no farm system.

 

 

personally, i think he's learned the wrong lesson. the lesson should be get the **** out of your baseball operations office and let the GM run the goddamm team. we've got an owner who wants to win, which is great, but he can't stay out of the way of the people he employs and he apparently doesn't understand hierarchy.

[ABC]

Arte needs to step away from the business if his budget is a seemingly arbitrary $150MM. The Angels are in a major baseball market and he can't spend like significantly smaller markets? If the Angels need to spend $200MM on payroll then they need to find someone who can increase the team's revenue. Obviously he can't and no one in the org can.

 

Even if he maxed out revenue (which he very likely hasn't) the team appreciates in value every year. So if he can't spend without having to make a healthy profit then he doesn't have enough cash to own this team. Baseball teams aren't supposed to make the owner Scrooge Mcduck money every year. It's a club and membership. You make your cash when you sell or with other businesses built on connections within the owner's club.

[IEAngelsfan]

There's a part of me that still doesn't believe him when he says he has budget concerns.

I'm glad he has appeared to learn the lesson after Matthews/Wells/Pujols/Hamilton. But it doesn't add up that Eppler would want this job if he knew he would have to cut salary and have no farm system.

For your sake, you better come to terms with his budget limit.  This way, you won't be continuously disappointed when he doesn't go over it in the future. Just a bit of advice.

[NrM]

Pretty much what I've been saying.  The Cap was a smokescreen. 

 

The Opening day balances were the more accurate 'budget'.

 

2016 around $172 or $144 if you subtract Hamilton

2015 $146

2014 $154

2013 $137

2012 $151

2011 $141

 

Of course the bad thing is.

 

2017 $134 4 players 11 arbitration minimums

2018 $116 4 players 13 arbitration minimums

2019 $110 3 players 11 arbitration minimums

2020 $99 3 players 6 arbitration minimums

 

So if he is saying that the $140 maybe $150 a year is his budget.  We are in for a load of hurt.

 

It's time to spend the next 3-4 years rebuilding then.

 

well it's been long overdue.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Mr. Meeseeks

[NrM]

Moreno says that his operating budget has typically been in the $140-150MM range, but he’s consistently exceeded that mark to the point where he suggested to Gonzalez that the team is barely avoiding debt.

 

 

lol bullshit

Edited February 20, 2016 by Mr. Meeseeks

[Docwaukee]

I think people making a connection between him not wanting to spend this year and him learning some sort of lesson is a logical fallacy.  

 

 

“The reality is it's a business. And right now the economics don't add up for us to go invest that kind of money."

 

“Does one of those guys give us a better chance to win? Sure they do,” 

 

“But the reality is, are they a guarantee? And what we end up with is we end up with debt. We end up paying tax, and then it restricts what our flexibility is going forward.”

 

 

 

Let's be clear.  We want him to view winning as the ultimate return on his investments.  He views making money as the appropriate return on his investments.  Granted, making the playoffs does generate revenue for the franchise and the deeper you get into the playoffs, the more money you make.  But is it enough to offset adding a big free agent?  

 

Ticket revenue to the WS winner is about 20mil to the team.  That obviously doesn't count other revenue like increased attendance during a playoff run or merchandising etc.  If you don't make the world series, you probably end up getting around 5-10 mil from ticket sales depending on the round you get bounced.  

 

So let's say you go over budget by 20mil in 2016, but in doing so you add an additional 20mil in payroll to 2017 and 2018.  ie that loss of financial flexibility and the risk it bears.  If you are at your budget limit, best case scenario by going 12-15mil over budget by adding someone that's as mundane as a Dexter Fowler, you break even and that's if you make the playoffs.  

 

We want his lack of spending this year to mean that he's going to change his ways and start paying attention to scouting and player development, but it doesn't.  It just means that he doesn't want to take money out of his pocket with substantial risk that he won't get it back.  

 

Arte didn't learn his lesson.  We did.  We got a lesson in economics and a hard less in reality.  As I have been saying all along, why would Arte take money out of his pocket for Dexter Fowler when he already has Mike Trout.  

 

The reality is that nothing has changed.  We have an owner that is willing to spend on the major league roster to a certain point.  Not necessarily to win, but to see a return on that investment.  He will continue to operate as such going forward.  

 

What we have to hope for is that the decision making process gets better and that will only happen if Arte isn't a part of it.  Because the philosophy is still the same.  Use every last resource on the major league club within the confines of your budget.  

[Docwaukee]

Moreno says that his operating budget has typically been in the $140-150MM range, but he’s consistently exceeded that mark to the point where he suggested to Gonzalez that the team is barely avoiding debt.

 

 

lol bullshit

I agree.  the numbers on the spreadsheet are highly manipulated.  If part of the budget is 20mil going to the ownership group then taking on 'debt' to make that distribution is  a ruse.  

 

And we aren't going to rebuild.  We will continue to retool until such time that the entire system comes crashing down.  We will see use of org currency to supply the major league club over the next five years at least.  Whatever money is freed up after 2016 and 2017 will be spent to get to that 150mil budget.  Whatever prospects we just so happen to develop will be used to add value to the major league club.  

[NrM]

I agree.  the numbers on the spreadsheet are highly manipulated.  If part of the budget is 20mil going to the ownership group then taking on 'debt' to make that distribution is  a ruse.  

 

And we aren't going to rebuild.  We will continue to retool until such time that the entire system comes crashing down.  We will see use of org currency to supply the major league club over the next five years at least.  Whatever money is freed up after 2016 and 2017 will be spent to get to that 150mil budget.  Whatever prospects we just so happen to develop will be used to add value to the major league club.  

 

Not if they're a last place team this year, which is very possible.

[Docwaukee]

While the amount of money Arte is willing to spend going forward is important, the biggest factor in regards to the long term health of this franchise is his involvement in player personnel decisions and making some sort of commitment to scouting and player development.  There is no indication that his philosophy on either of those fronts has changed.  We will only know where he stands when we actually do get some financial resources to make that an issue again.   

[Docwaukee]

Not if they're a last place team this year, which is very possible.

It's possible, but not probable.  It's hard to be a last place team with Mike Trout.  And even still, when you have the best player in baseball, it's much easier to change your future rather quickly.  

 

take 2013 vs 2014 vs 2015.  Our pitching was tremendously awful in 2013.  A couple of players do well and we win 98 games the next year.  Our offense was awful sans Trout last year.  A couple of players being mediocre makes us much better for this year.  

 

Our floor for 2016 is probably .500 assuming guys stay healthy.   When we were bad in 2013 we didn't have near the pitching talent and depth we do now.  

[Second Base]

This is progress. At least he didn't try to say he didn't have the money while aboard his super-yacht this time.

[NrM]

It's possible, but not probable.  It's hard to be a last place team with Mike Trout.  And even still, when you have the best player in baseball, it's much easier to change your future rather quickly.  

 

take 2013 vs 2014 vs 2015.  Our pitching was tremendously awful in 2013.  A couple of players do well and we win 98 games the next year.  Our offense was awful sans Trout last year.  A couple of players being mediocre makes us much better for this year.  

 

Our floor for 2016 is probably .500 assuming guys stay healthy.   When we were bad in 2013 we didn't have near the pitching talent and depth we do now.  

 

That 2013 roster was so ****ing bad. Can't believe they managed to win 78 games. 

Mike Trout is a blessing and a curse.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Mr. Meeseeks