Middle Class Losing Ground

[Jim]

i don't know what your deal is against teachers, but i'm guessing either you had really bad experiences in school, you sucked as a student, or you're just simply trolling like a boss.

 

any time you want to sack up and come face a hundred 12/13 year olds, plan interesting lessons for them, and deal with all the crap they're able and willing to bring, plus their parents, give me a holler. i'll give you my classes for the day, but i doubt you'd be able to last until lunch.

 

what i do know is that you haven't got the first clue about what a teacher does or what a teacher has to go through. without a doubt in my mind, it would be best if just closed your ill-informed yapper about something you know so very little about.

Not knowing what a teacher goes through, I can't correctly assess what it would take to be a good or bad one. Whenever I envision myself as a Jr high or high school teacher, it always starts out wonderful (do what I want, give A's to the kids I like, D's for the rest) but quickly degrades and ends horribly with me being led off in handcuffs after having dealt my form of discipline with a chair to the back of little Jr's head, the little shit. 

 

I can’t be a nurse dealing with rectal bleeds of an 80-year-old, or a fireman who has once again rolled up on a scene where children experience severe injuries or death from a senseless accident, or a cop constantly having to deal with the more unfriendly side of the human element daily, and possibly have to take a human life on my next eight-hour shift. For that alone, my opinion is that these certain vocations deserve at least an above average income for the services they give our society.  I could easily be a government employee (lazy bastards), with great benefits, good to great pay, every other ****ing day off, no real pressure to delivery on time. Yes, I’m jealous. I’d take that job in a minute if offered.     

  

From the point of view of someone on the outside looking in, I'd say most teachers are paid a fair wage, a few not as near as much as they deserve (Jr high and high school), some well (elementary), and some way over paid (university professors). Admittedly, this from someone that doesn't have intimate knowledge of these professions, just an opinion on what I have experienced in my 56 years on the granite planet, and after having raised four children two now in the education system. Personally, I know a few of these folks, and I'd say they’re compensated reasonably well.  

 

For those of you teachers who are committed to excellence and strive to differ, be different (and I believe that's most who take up the cause), my hats off to you, for you are going up against the worst, most influential teacher of them all, the TV. And now, too many of our children have unfettered access too many other media types with no boundaries. Hard to compete against an attention whore so powerful that has little or no regard for teaching what is in the best interest of our youth. Worst yet, IT has the complete attention of too many parents.

 

My whole hearted thanks go out to men and women like Tank, Recon Scout, and the many others on this site that do what they do to improve society, not just take from it with no appreciation.     

[ten ocho recon scout]

Nicely put Jim, and apprecoate the sentiments. I agree on the teaching thing, i think id lose it quick and end up in the news for beating kids and their parents later on. In all honesty, being a cop made me really appreciate what teachers go through. Mind you, the high schools in my city are pretty crap, so id assume the nicer schools dont have it as bad. But rhe just the interaction i have with teens has made me hate dealing with them. I cant imagine what 8 classes a day of 30 different ones would be like. Obviously a lot of good kids, but im sure enough each class to make you hate your life and daydream about beating the crap out of them. Or at least telling them the truth about their life and future (which again would get you fired).

I think its more about the job by definition is teaching. And in that there will be good ones and bad ones. The secondary part of it, which an outsider wouldnt be familiar with, is the BS teachers get from student, and no real plan to punish them. Cant kick them out, cant expel them anymore. You just have to sit day after day and take it from some little sh*t whos parents never taught them how to behave.

But again, you teach in anaheim hills, irvine, or something like that and its probably a lot different. The girl im dating now has her masters, a good career, and owns her own home and shes not even 30 yet. I give her credit for that all the time, and am truly impressed by it. She shruggs it off and says thats the same story from just about every other girl (and guy) she grew up with. She and i obviously come from different backgrounds...haha

[Spirit]

Teachers strike me as the same as any other professional.  Some suck.  Some are amazing.  And most fall somewhere in the middle.  My problem is that the great ones can't make tons of cash, and the shitty ones can't get canned.  Also, it's tough (to near impossible) for them to move from one district to another without starting from the bottom again.

 

What I'm trying to say is:  Tank should make more money.  

Edited December 20, 2015 by Geoff

[ten ocho recon scout]

Why, hed just spend it on vegetables

[Spirit]

Those veggies aren't going to murder themselves. 

[Crampknees]

I second Tank's raise.  Good thing is we have a couple teachers here who are outstanding.  I would guess there are way more good ones out there than shitty ones who just drag the good ones down at times. 

 

Tank, give me your school districts number, I will call on your behalf:)

[Jim]

Ha, we should all call on his behalf.

[Glen]

 

 

I can’t be a nurse dealing with rectal bleeds of an 80-year-old, or a fireman who has once again rolled up on a scene where children experience severe injuries or death from a senseless accident, or a cop constantly having to deal with the more unfriendly side of the human element daily, and possibly have to take a human life on my next eight-hour shift. For that alone, my opinion is that these certain vocations deserve at least an above average income for the services they give our society.  I could easily be a government employee (lazy bastards), with great benefits, good to great pay, every other ****ing day off, no real pressure to delivery on time. Yes, I’m jealous. I’d take that job in a minute if offered.     

 

 

 

 

 

 

For ****'s sake, you complain about lazy government workers and then say you'd take one of those jobs in a minute if it was offered to you.  Quit bitching and go out and get one, you lazy bastard.  Why do you want a handout?  If I can get you you sure as hell should be able to.

[Tank]

Teachers strike me as the same as any other professional.  Some suck.  Some are amazing.  And most fall somewhere in the middle.  My problem is that the great ones can't make tons of cash, and the shitty ones can't get canned.  Also, it's tough (to near impossible) for them to move from one district to another without starting from the bottom again.

 

What I'm trying to say is:  Tank should make more money.  

 

have i mentioned lately how you're one of my favorite posters ever?

[Tank]

i really like the direction this thread took.

 

for the record, my district is speed dial 9. should work from any phone. thanks, fellas.

[mtangelsfan]

Glen has been crabby for a few months now.

[Stradling]

Glen has been crabby for a few months now.

Well he's married now

[Jim]

For ****'s sake, you complain about lazy government workers and then say you'd take one of those jobs in a minute if it was offered to you.  Quit bitching and go out and get one, you lazy bastard.  Why do you want a handout?  If I can get you you sure as hell should be able to.

You seriously didn't see the sarcasm in that statement.

 

If I have in any way insulted the dedicated hard working men and women of the US government, I apologize.

 

And since we're on the subject, if you have a lead on a job in the 200,000 range with benefits, I would appreciate a shout out.   

[arch stanton]

You seriously didn't see the sarcasm in that statement.

 

If I have in any way insulted the dedicated hard working men and women of the US government, I apologize.

 

And since we're on the subject, if you have a lead on a job in the 200,000 range with benefits, I would appreciate a shout out.   

He's totally messing with you. Not only does he have a sweet government gig, he's got a blank check for hiding in a closet and pretending to work. Top secret advanced projects are the greatest skating tool ever invented.

[Angelsjunky]

Well he's married now

 

 

 

[nate]

As a member of the middle class I get to pay 28% of my income to the federal government and another ~6% to the state.

 

I definitely think that has an impact on shrinking the middle class.

[Angelsjunky]

Except the middle class tax rate hasn't gone up substantially.

 

[Glen]

It's a random, unsourced graph. It has to be true!

[Spirit]

I think a lot of people who believe themselves to be part of the middle class would be surprised to find they're actually in the upper class. 

[Angelsjunky]

It's a random, unsourced graph. It has to be true!

 

It doesn't fit my pre-conceived notions, therefore it must be false!

 

Seriously though, here's the article its from, but there is plenty of other stuff out there.

[Spirit]

WARNING!  The article is from Think Progress.  WARNING!

 

 

[Adam]

Regulation, taxes, minimum wage increases have impacted the ability of small businesses to create new careers.

[Glen]

One thing that bugs me is the whole "you want burger-flippers to make $15 an hour when _________ only makes $15 an hour?" rhetoric.  That's only half correct.  **** yes, I want burger-flippers to make $15 an hour.  While not mentally demanding, working at a fast-food joint is physically and emotionally tough.  Dealing with the public, especially the cheap-ass people going to McDonald's, is draining.  The half that's missing is that I want _______ to make more, as in what they should be making.  An EMT shouldn't make the same as a burger-flipper, and that's the problem, not the burger-flipper making $15.  

 

Yes, I know, utopia blah blah blah.  I just want the argument framed more accurately.  

[Angelsjunky]

Geoff, we wouldn't want to "think progress" now would we?

 

Glen, nothing wrong with utopian ideas - we SHOULD be thinking about how to make this country better and better, for more and more people. That's what it was founded upon, right? The Utopia ideals of the Age of Enlightenment.

 

What bugs me about this is the in-fighting among the middle and lower class. "We" are not the problem. The problem is the ever-increasing gap between the very wealthy and everyone else. The 1% keep getting wealthier and wealthier, the next 10-20% are doing pretty well too (although still bitch about their tax rates, boo-hoo), but the vast majority of the country is stagnating and the cost of living keeps increasing.

[Spirit]

One thing that bugs me is the whole "you want burger-flippers to make $15 an hour when _________ only makes $15 an hour?" rhetoric.  That's only half correct.  **** yes, I want burger-flippers to make $15 an hour.  While not mentally demanding, working at a fast-food joint is physically and emotionally tough.  Dealing with the public, especially the cheap-ass people going to McDonald's, is draining.  The half that's missing is that I want _______ to make more, as in what they should be making.  An EMT shouldn't make the same as a burger-flipper, and that's the problem, not the burger-flipper making $15.  

 

Yes, I know, utopia blah blah blah.  I just want the argument framed more accurately.  

 

 

Right on!  If everyone gets kicked up, I should be making $500,000 a year in no time!