Middle Class Losing Ground

[Hollyw00d]

The middle class is disappearing because the policies of both parties benefit either the wealthy or the poor.

The folks that get squeezed for those benefits are the middle class.

Why is it, then, that the lower class is increasing as well?

[Hollyw00d]

Seems like the primary beneficiaries of that chart is the highest level

Yay capitalism

[juansavage1]

Two large factors, I bet, are broken or never-formed homes and immigration.

I'd like to compare the rates for native, married Americans today and fifty years ago.

[Crampknees]

Two large factors, I bet, are broken or never-formed homes and immigration.

I'd like to compare the rates for native, married Americans today and fifty years ago.

I have taken about 15 squaws in that time if you need it for your analysis. 

[mtangelsfan]

Why is it, then, that the lower class is increasing as well?

Is that a trick question? If the middle class is shrinking where do you think they are ending up?

[Amazing Larry]

Why is it, then, that the lower class is increasing as well?

 

Just because policies benefit the poor doesn't mean their income is increasing. They are receiving benefits such as welfare and food stamps.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Lawrence

[juansavage1]

You guys are probably looking in the wrong place. Maybe less people are doing things that keep them in the middle class. 

[nate]

Your comment about families and minorities have nothing to do with it.  There already aren't enough jobs so it isn't like the reason people are paid less is because they don't have the skills.

 

So much outsourcing and taxing of small businesses and the middle class means a smaller middle class.

[juansavage1]

Your comment about families and minorities have nothing to do with it.  There already aren't enough jobs so it isn't like the reason people are paid less is because they don't have the skills.

 

So much outsourcing and taxing of small businesses and the middle class means a smaller middle class.

I didn't mention race. 

 

If there aren't enough jobs, why do we have immigration? A family member of my wife's came here illegally and got a job in like a week. Also, jobs expand and decline based on the performance of the country.

 

I'd still look into who is dropping out of the middle class. Is it single mothers and skill-less immigrants who are swelling the lower class? If it's behavior-based, then all of us who try to live responsible lives can breathe easier and those who don't should consider doing so. 

 

If you want to come to intelligent conclusions, you have to break things down and think. If not, well, then you can parrot political talking points. 

Edited December 12, 2015 by Juan Savage

[Angelsjunky]

The middle class is disappearing because the policies of both parties benefit either the wealthy or the poor.

The folks that get squeezed for those benefits are the middle class.

 

I agree with you to a point. I see the policies that "benefit" the poor as being more symptomatic of an increasing need for such benefits. Or maybe it is a vicious cycle: More people need benefits, which increases taxes on the middle class, which in turn drives more towards needing more benefits. In other words, the policies that "benefit" the poor, as you put it, are more like band-aid fixes to a deeper problem.

[Glen]

I didn't mention race. 

 

If there aren't enough jobs, why do we have immigration? A family member of my wife's came here illegally and got a job in like a week. Also, jobs expand and decline based on the performance of the country.

 

I'd still look into who is dropping out of the middle class. Is it single mothers and skill-less immigrants who are swelling the lower class? If it's behavior-based, then all of us who try to live responsible lives can breathe easier and those who don't should consider doing so. 

 

If you want to come to intelligent conclusions, you have to break things down and think. If not, well, then you can parrot political talking points. 

 

 

Once again, another rhetorical question with no answer (which is redundant, I know).  Perhaps it's because even our shitty, under-the-table jobs are better than what these people are immigrating from.  

 

The population keeps growing and the number of jobs are decreasing due to automation and other factors, and that's why wages are going down and the middle class is shrinking.  30 years ago, if you were smart with your money you could have a single-family household where the primary breadwinner stayed at the same job for 35 years, got a decent wage and benefits, and retired with some level of comfort.  Those days are long gone.  Not many jobs offer than kind of long-term security and benefits any more.  

[Adam]

Learn to write and sell

[AngelsLongBall]

Learn to write and sell

Seriously. We are desperately looking for people to help us, in semi skilled areas. Mechanics, welders, etc. The people who we are seeing are all unemployable. Scraping the bottom of the barrel.

[wopphil]

I hate paying taxes as much as the rest of you, but I am more concerned with rising health care costs and food costs. I think it costs about $20,000 per year to insure my family. That's just insane, and pretty close to what I pay in taxes.

And I am scared to think what it will cost to put my kids through college. The cost of school, along with so many other things, has well outpaced inflation and income growth.

[Brandon]

It's why younger generations aren't in a rush for marriage, kids, etc.

Life just costs too much.

[juansavage1]

Seems like the primary beneficiaries of that chart is the highest level

Yay capitalism

Capitalism is why we're the wealthiest country on earth with butt loads of universities, hospitals, and leisure. I'd be a little more grateful. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Just because policies benefit the poor doesn't mean their income is increasing. They are receiving benefits such as welfare and food stamps.

goes beyond that as well.

Public schools.....

Obviously i want our kids educated as much as the next person, and believe school at the k-12 level should be free. But they really arent free. Someone (tax payers) pays for those schools. There are too many people out there who cant afford to have kids, having kids. And they continue to have them. They send far too many kids (even if its one) to the public schools that everyone else has to pay for (including the free lunches)

Again, im all for free schools, thats just an example of cost that no one ever really thinks about when it comes to social programs.

Bigger cities with higher crime. Go to the bad neighborhoods...they arent paying for the food and medical costs of inmates that come from their neighborhood. They arent paying for the hospital bills of the gangster who gets shot.

Again, i feel like we have enough money as a society to provide education, emergency health care, etc to those who cant afford it. But its one of those things people dont think about that costs a ton.

[juansavage1]

goes beyond that as well.

Public schools.....

Obviously i want our kids educated as much as the next person, and believe school at the k-12 level should be free. But they really arent free. Someone (tax payers) pays for those schools. There are too many people out there who cant afford to have kids, having kids. And they continue to have them. They send far too many kids (even if its one) to the public schools that everyone else has to pay for (including the free lunches)

Again, im all for free schools, thats just an example of cost that no one ever really thinks about when it comes to social programs.

Bigger cities with higher crime. Go to the bad neighborhoods...they arent paying for the food and medical costs of inmates that come from their neighborhood. They arent paying for the hospital bills of the gangster who gets shot.

Again, i feel like we have enough money as a society to provide education, emergency health care, etc to those who cant afford it. But its one of those things people dont think about that costs a ton.

People having kids isn't the problem. We need kids. The problem is that many of the kids turn out to be bad citizens who don't do things that make them productive. 

 

I don't know the answer to this, but I would like information of how much of the people not climbing from or falling into the lower class is because of poor habits. To get this information, we need to see how many people in the lower classes are single parents, uneducated, criminals, etc. 

[Glen]

Middle or upper class criminals don't count then?

[mtangelsfan]

who said that?

[ten ocho recon scout]

People having kids isn't the problem. We need kids. The problem is that many of the kids turn out to be bad citizens who don't do things that make them productive.

I don't know the answer to this, but I would like information of how much of the people not climbing from or falling into the lower class is because of poor habits. To get this information, we need to see how many people in the lower classes are single parents, uneducated, criminals, etc.

do we need kids? Yes....to a point. I have no clue what the actual number would be, but we (as people in general) are overproducing

Watch animal planet and youll see where our problems come from...limited resources, too many fighting over them. Strong homes reproducing is good. Unfit to parent people reproducing is bad.

But more to the point i was making, theres a large percentage of our aociety getting more than they are paying in. Its the same for the rich, with tax breaks, as it is for the poor. But the same point stands, very simply, there are people out there who cost the system far more than they are putting in

[Glen]

who said that?

Juan did. He said people having kids were the problem, then focused on poor people and their criminal progeny.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

The lower the income the higher the birth rate in the US and I'm guessing that holds true for most of the rest of the world.  Level of education as a whole is lower for individuals who come from backgrounds where their parents have at most a high school diploma so the highest birth rates come from people with the lowest level of education while many never break out of that cycle.  I think that goes back to what Adam and AngelsLongBall hit on which is the fact that quite a few people applying for jobs don't even have the most basic of skills to get what in some cases is an entry level job. 

 

As far as people overproducing as a whole yes the world population continues to grow but the national birth rate in the US is lower than what's considered necessary to grow the population which is one thing that supports immigration.  That's something Japan has been dealing with for years and is now seeing the repercussions of with an aging population but I believe their immigration policies are quite a bit different which has compounded their problems.  Mathematically speaking even quite a few middle class families who think they're getting more than they put in may not be when they have kids in school.  In CA the cost of publication education is just shy of 10K per kid so a family with 2 kids in school is receiving 20K in benefits each year while their kids are in the public school system.

[juansavage1]

America needs more good kids. Countries with low birth rates dont have lower unemployment. In fact, their economies deteriorate.

Just like there are good and bad immigrants there are good and bad kids. We need good immigrants and good kids.

If you want a larger middle class, uou support "middle class" values.

[mtangelsfan]

Juan did. He said people having kids were the problem, then focused on poor people and their criminal progeny.

 

Wow, you are extrapolating a lot out of that post.

 

I think your Juan meter may need calibration.