Mike Maddux will NOT return as the Rangers pitching coach, sign him NOW!

[Tank]

Worth giving him a call and gauging his interest. Maybe he can help CJ Wilson because of their past together.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Tank

[bloodbrother]

Sounds like a good move that the Angels should make.....so it won't happen

[Redondo]

[tomsred]

Question #1:  Why did he not resign with Texas?

 

Question #2:  Exactly what skills does he have that make him superior?

 

Question #3:  What are his salary demands, and for how long?

 

Question #4:  Do we have to take his brother as well, and what role does he want to have?

Edited October 30, 2015 by tomsred

[Blarg]

The answer to question #1 is John Daniels is a dick.

[tomsred]

The answer to question #1 is John Daniels is a dick.

 

I'm still waiting for the answer to #2 from anyone.  I don't have an answer to #2, but I'm would honestly like to know what makes him special, other than generalizations about the image he has.  And how much of that image is derived from his brother's success?  I wouldn't expect anyone on here to have an answer to #3 & #4, but they could obviously influence his desirability.

Edited October 30, 2015 by tomsred

[Yellow Balloon]

#1 The Rangers offered him a contract for next year. He apparently wants to explore his options. He's been linked to and interviewed for managerial jobs the past few years.

#2 He's done a pretty nice job for a franchise that historically lacked quality pitching. Remember those World Series teams basically had Colby Lewis and C.J. Wilson for one-twos. Well, except for the year they rented Cliff Lee.

#3 More than the Rangers were willing to offer.

#4 With the Rangers Greg sort of did what Koufax used to do with various teams. Suits up during ST and works the back fields, helping and advising the youngsters. Not sure what his role was during the season, or if he even had one.

I remember reading something in the Dallas paper a couple weeks ago linking Mike Maddux to the Angels. Whoever the writer was -- probably Evan Grant -- he may have known more than he was letting on.

[Lou]

True, the Rangers offered him a contract, but they then informed him that they had decided to go in a different direction.

[Jobu]

The Teixeira Rangers.

[aznhockeyguy]

Please get him Angels.

[mrwicked]

way too smart and successful for the angels to pick up.

[Glen]

We're waiting, EpPler.

[disarcina]

I agree -- sign him now?

 

Is he all that as a pitching coach?  maybe but probably not.

 

Is he an upgrade over what we've had in the now departed Butcher over the four/ five seasons??  ABSOLUTELY.

[Second Base]

If Maddux wanted to remain a pitching coach, he likely would've stayed with the Rangers. Seems like he left in search of a promotion. I mean sure, he'd make an amazing pitching coach in very much the same way Bud Black would have, but he's probably gunning for a manager or even a GM job. If the Angels are lucky, he'll agree to the pitching coach job with a hefty raise, but I wouldnt going on it.

[tomsred]

I still don't understand what it is that makes him so superior to everyone else's pitching coach.  Yep, nice guy (check), good calm attitude (check), smart (check), what else is there that is a difference maker?  Because he may be qualified to be a manager or general manager doesn't mean that he's better than some other pitching coaches.  He didn't exactly part the Dead Sea in Texas.  The pitchers he had to work with were in many cases pretty exceptional on their own, Darvish (slowed by injuries, but ace material from the start, Feliz (great from the start as a reliever, but slowed by injuries), Holland (pretty good number 2 or 3 at times from the start, even Wilson (good reliever early on, then good enough to be an effective number 2-3 starter).  I'm just trying to say they gave him some pretty good material to work with from the get go.  My only point is, do when need to spend a lot of money on someone with a jacked up reputation when there are probably many other qualified candidates who just want to make their mark as a pitching coach, and will dedicate themselves to the task for probably a lot less money.  Texas hasn't been exactly been a gold mine of talent for us over the years.

Edited November 1, 2015 by tomsred

[totdprods]

From the Rangers site...

"In his six years leading the staff, club has posted the six lowest ERA's in the "Ballpark Era" of 1994-2014" and I think I read somewhere that 2015 makes all seven of his years are now the seven lowest ERAs of that era.

Should he get all the credit? No, the Rangers have had much better pitching talent over the past 7 years than they did 1994-2009, and offense has declined around the sport, but for all of his 7 years to consistently represent the best ERA over 21 year span for a team is pretty notable and should at a minimum point to a successful pitching coach. What more results do you need? Especially considering the Rangers park is still extremely hitter-friendly.

[tomsred]

From the Rangers site...

"In his six years leading the staff, club has posted the six lowest ERA's in the "Ballpark Era" of 1994-2014" and I think I read somewhere that 2015 makes all seven of his years are now the seven lowest ERAs of that era.

Should he get all the credit? No, the Rangers have had much better pitching talent over the past 7 years than they did 1994-2009, and offense has declined around the sport, but for all of his 7 years to consistently represent the best ERA over 21 year span for a team is pretty notable and should at a minimum point to a successful pitching coach. What more results do you need? Especially considering the Rangers park is still extremely hitter-friendly.

 

I wasn't particularly asking about the statistics of his business.  I was asking more about what is attractive about his coaching style and personality that makes him so desirable.  On the statistical side what you said makes sense.  However there were 23 other teams in Major League baseball with team ERA's lower than the team ERA posted by Texas, and Texas only played half their games at home.  Cleveland had the lowest team ERA in the American League, I don't know who their pitching coach is, but maybe he's worth looking into.  I have nothing against Maddux, he probably would be a fine pitching coach here, if that is what he wants to do.  I'm just curious about what makes him such a good candidate.  I don't think someone is going to hire him based on statistical evidence alone by the way.

Edited November 2, 2015 by tomsred

[ukyah]

From the Rangers site...

"In his six years leading the staff, club has posted the six lowest ERA's in the "Ballpark Era" of 1994-2014" and I think I read somewhere that 2015 makes all seven of his years are now the seven lowest ERAs of that era.

Should he get all the credit? No, the Rangers have had much better pitching talent over the past 7 years than they did 1994-2009, and offense has declined around the sport, but for all of his 7 years to consistently represent the best ERA over 21 year span for a team is pretty notable and should at a minimum point to a successful pitching coach. What more results do you need? Especially considering the Rangers park is still extremely hitter-friendly.

 

 

i don't think this works for you as much as you might think. while he was leading his club to the sixth lowest era, i'm pretty sure mike butcher was leading the angels to the 3rd lowest era, and i'm anything but a mike butcher fan. having said that, i'd like maddux as our pitching coach.

Edited November 2, 2015 by ukyah

[totdprods]

i don't think this works for you as much as you might think. while he was leading his club to the sixth lowest era, i'm pretty sure mike butcher was leading the angels to the 3rd lowest era, and i'm anything but a mike butcher fan. having said that, i'd like maddux as our pitching coach.

No, you misread the stats. I wasn't referring to one single season. I was referring to the fact that over a 21-year span, the six (actually seven now) seasons of lowest team ERAs are all from Maddux's tenure. The fact that every single one of his pitching staffs rank 1-7 out of 21 in that bandbox points to consistent success. Consider that the Rangers were good team in the late 90's and a bad team the past couple of years (until this year) too, so it's not like he has gotten by purely on luck from a talented staff.

[Broad Street]

You're crazy if you don't think a pitching coach has any effect on a team. There's a reason they're there. Now, as for him leaving, looking for a promotion, how many manager spots are still open?

[totdprods]

I wasn't particularly asking about the statistics of his business.  I was asking more about what is attractive about his coaching style and personality that makes him so desirable.  On the statistical side what you said makes sense.  However there were 23 other teams in Major League baseball with team ERA's lower than the team ERA posted by Texas, and Texas only played half their games at home.  Cleveland had the lowest team ERA in the American League, I don't know who their pitching coach is, but maybe he's worth looking into.  I have nothing against Maddux, he probably would be a fine pitching coach here, if that is what he wants to do.  I'm just curious about what makes him such a good candidate.  I don't think someone is going to hire him based on statistical evidence alone by the way.

 

Cleveland's pitching coach is former Halo Mickey Callaway, who has drawn positive reviews in his few years. 

Also, again, the stats I'm referring to are Maddux's seven years as pitching coach over a 21 year period, which MLB is calling the 

"Ballpark Era" (1994-2015, I guess 'Steroid Era' didn't have a good ring to it) and the fact that every single year under his campaign rank as the seven best in terms of ERA for the Rangers in that span. That includes the very good Rangers teams of the late 90's, and the pretty terrible 2014 Rangers team.

 

I don't know specifics on his pitching philosophy, demeanor, or attitude towards scouting reports or advanced statistics, I just see solid, consistent results over a long-period of time. 

 

Another major reason I support the idea is, due to the unbalanced schedule and how often the Angels play the AL West, Maddux would already have significant familiarity with not just the Angels staff and Rangers staff, but the rest of the AL West - who represent a majority of our games played. I think he would be a great pitching coach. Consistency is what is appealing to me most - seems like in recent years, the Angels fluctuate wildly from having good pitching and no hitting, no pitching and good hitting, good pitching and good pitching but terrible bullpen, etc. That's not all on the coaching staff, but Maddux's consistent record bodes well.

 

For the record, I think Butcher was a pretty good pitching coach as well, and received a bad rap due to underwhelming pitching staffs cobbled together under high expectations. 

[Stradling]

I'm assuming they are calling it "The Ballpark Era" because The Ballpark at Arlington probably opened in 94 and is a hitters park.

[totdprods]

I'm assuming they are calling it "The Ballpark Era" because The Ballpark at Arlington probably opened in 94 and is a hitters park.

 

I didn't consider that the Rangers site may be referring to an 'Era' in a specifically Rangers-sense, but that totally applies there. 

 

I just assumed Ballpark Era fit 1994 onward as that's when offense began it's major resurgence and when the new throwback ballparks like Camden and Ballpark in Arlington opened, starting that trend.

[arch stanton]

I thought it was fairly obvious that the Ballpark Era referred to the stadium opening. The ERA+ jumped from 83 in '08 to 106 in '09 without a huge turnover in personnel, if that means anything.

[DMVol]

Without scrolling through this entire thread, has anybody said whether Scioscia and Maddux have any relationship, short of competing against one another for years?