We need to bring Latos back next year

[Jay]

As soon as the ball got by Giavotella after him misjudging the ball, he angrily smacked his glove into his leg looking that direction.

 

Just rubbed me the wrong way in your first damn game. I don't want his attitude to mess up what we got going.

 

I saw that but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt this time.

[Make Angels Great Again]

I could understand that, but with his history I wouldn't.

[AngelsFanSince86]

Um , no.

 

It was a screamer that Giavotella had no chance at and Latos was angry because he grooved a FB.

 

Think you were watching the Mariners game buddy. 

 

EDIT: And Rojas said nothing of the sort. Gubi remarked that he looked angry for allowing a single. Once again, wrong broadcast me thinks. 

 

I didn't see what Latos did so I won't comment on that, but I was at the game on the first base side pretty close up and Giavotella just had a late reaction.  He definitely could have gotten it.   It was within his immediate range and you could see him stutter before he finally dove and it went just under his glove. Just clarifying though.  Didn't see Latos' reaction and to me it wasn't a huge deal because they were up by so much and Giavotella has been so good recently.

[Jay]

There was a reaction by Latos but it didn't rise to Lackey status with the spinning and swearing and long face and all.

 

It was a simple fist into the glove as if to say damn we should have had that but again I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until it becomes a pattern.

[laagamer]

I know you are but what am I?

Are you Wilt Chamberlain?

[Glen]

Are you Wilt Chamberlain?

I'm like James Brown only white and taller...

[nate]

and uglier

[VariousCrap]

I just cannot get on board with this idea.  Everyone seems to keep saying this.  Yes, I agree it would be nice, but who?  The only people who qualify as legit aces that are free agents (because we should definitely not be depleting our entire farm for one player that only plays every 5 days at most) are Price, Zimmermann, and Cueto.  Cueto is showing why you can never depend on a guy switching to the AL.  Cueto has been awful since coming to the AL.  Zimmermann has had a similar year to Richards only Richards has a reason for having a down year so add that Zimmermann would be switching to the AL and thats not very enticing.  Price is going to get more money than Scherzer.  You really think it is a good idea to throw down $200+ million for a guy who plays every 5 days and is already 30?  Thats just asking for disappointment and another albatross contract.  Have we learned anything??  Fact is any ace is going to cost crazy money.  Any borderline ace is going to be no better than Richards.  Its really not even close to worth rolling the dice on. 

 

 

 

IMO, the Angels need an ace.  If the Angels end up making a playoffs and have to play in the one WC playoff game, I think the need for a legit ace will be demonstrated.  Richards is a #2 at best and on some rotations in the MLB, he is a #3.

 

Of the aces that are free agents, it is Cueto I would go for.  Yes, he has struggled since coming over to the AL, but that means shit.  First, he is pitching hurt.  This is something the Royals knew before trading for him, but they traded for him anyways.  Second, have you ever seen him pitch when he is healthy?  The dude has filthy stuff.  It won't matter what league he is in.  Finally, he won't cost a draft pick.

 

There are only a few things worth paying top dollar for in baseball.  Players like Trout and one of the best pitchers in the game.

[laagamer]

White Motown singer. Tough gig.

[Angelsjunky]

I just cannot get on board with this idea.  Everyone seems to keep saying this.  Yes, I agree it would be nice, but who?  The only people who qualify as legit aces that are free agents (because we should definitely not be depleting our entire farm for one player that only plays every 5 days at most) are Price, Zimmermann, and Cueto.  Cueto is showing why you can never depend on a guy switching to the AL.  Cueto has been awful since coming to the AL.  Zimmermann has had a similar year to Richards only Richards has a reason for having a down year so add that Zimmermann would be switching to the AL and thats not very enticing.  Price is going to get more money than Scherzer.  You really think it is a good idea to throw down $200+ million for a guy who plays every 5 days and is already 30?  Thats just asking for disappointment and another albatross contract.  Have we learned anything??  Fact is any ace is going to cost crazy money.  Any borderline ace is going to be no better than Richards.  Its really not even close to worth rolling the dice on. 

 

I completely agree with this. The Angels three pitchers who have #2 potential: Richards, Heaney, and Newcomb - who could even eventually be a true ace. Couple that with the likelihood that they need offense more and if they're going to make a big splash this offseason, they'll probably only do one - and I'd rather it be Heyward.

 

Anyhow, some people seem to be significanty underestimating Latos. From 2010-13 he was 14th in the majors in fWAR, right behind pitchers like Scherzer and an aging Halladay and right ahead of Doug Fister. He's a very good pitcher, a #2 type - #3 if you're really picky. Evidently the problem is his attitude, which is hard to change. But if he can be "loveable douche" like John Lackey was, he's a great player to get for a bargain.

[Make Angels Great Again]

Question, if we grabbed Heyward...would he be the leadoff hitter?

[VariousCrap]

I completely agree with this. The Angels three pitchers who have #2 potential: Richards, Heaney, and Newcomb - who could even eventually be a true ace. Couple that with the likelihood that they need offense more and if they're going to make a big splash this offseason, they'll probably only do one - and I'd rather it be Heyward.

 

 

Personally, I'm expecting more than one big splash this offseason; however if the Angels are going to only make on big signing, I'd agree with signing Heyward over one of the available aces.  A rotation can get by with a bunch of #2's and #3's, but this offense needs some major help.

[Angelsjunky]

Cueto is very good but a bit overrated. He's actually a similar pitcher in terms of overall performance and value as Latos was a couple years ago. I'd rather have Latos for 1/$12M than Cueto for 7/$150M.

[VariousCrap]

Cueto is very good but a bit overrated. He's actually a similar pitcher in terms of overall performance and value as Latos was a couple years ago. I'd rather have Latos for 1/$12M than Cueto for 7/$150M.

 

 

You know way more about all the stats then I do, so I'll trust what your saying there, but looking at traditional stats, Cueto is superior to Latos.

[Make Angels Great Again]

Wasn't it Cueto a couple years back that got in that huge brawl in Cinci where he started spiking everyone when he was pinned against the fence?

[Angelsjunky]

As for this whole notion of the Angels needing an ace, just how many aces are there out there? WAR isn't the best stat for pitchers but it is somewhat useful. Let's use that and RA9-WAR, which is WAR based on actual results, an average the two out over the last couple years (2014-15), then divide by two to get an average over the last two. Let's say that an "ace" is a pitcher that has at least a 5 in this number.

 

Are you still with be, all? The bottom line is that 5 or more = a true "ace." Let's stretch it a bit and include all pitchers with 4+. Here are the pitchers who have produced ace-like numbers over the last couple years:

 

7.9 Kershaw

6.4 Arrieta

6.0 Greinke

6.0 Price

5.9 Kluber

5.7 Keuchel

5.5 Scherzer

5.3 Sale

5.2 Cueto

5.1 Felix

4.8 Lester

4.5 Hamels

4.4 Bumgarner

4.4 Quintana

4.3 deGrom

4.2 Gray

 

Garret Richards would be 3.5, by the way.

 

Anyhow, that's 16 pitchers that are roughly ace-caliber. That means that major league teams average about "half an ace," with several teams having more than one and most having none.

[nikkachez]

He was / is overrated IMO.

Yeah, that's why the Cards went out and got him.

[Homebrewer]

One of the worst brawls of recent years...
 
Cueto got 7 games for it...
 
 

[VariousCrap]

That was one of the worst brawls in recent years?  lol

[Angelsjunky]

That was one of the worst brawls in recent years?  lol

 

Who are you, Enos Slaughter? It got pretty gnarly there at the end.

[ten ocho recon scout]

To piggyback AFS86 and AJ, i agree. While i understand the part of needing a big game pitcher in the playoffs, we need bats far more. Our SP has been pretty solid. Sure, we could use a silver bullet to throw game 1 of a playoff series...but right now we dont have an offense to get him there. If we blew our wad on one SP, maybe he goes out and throws 8 innings of 1 run ball...the problem is, our offense is facing someone else's silver bullet.

As the team stands right now, a hot shot ace is more of a luxury than a need. It would be (IMO) similar to adding hamilton in 13, when we desperately needed pitching, but had the trout, pujols,morales, trumbo, howie etc offense. I would expect the same results.

Not sure what to make of latos. If the price is right, it could be a good pickup to replace weaver. Would lrefer that route to signing a 150 mill bigger name guy. But this of course is only if were going to open the wallet for a bat (preferably 2)

[Homebrewer]

I was going to term it as "best" but changed my mind.

I liked that the managers, Dumbsty and Larussa were the ones who pretty much got it going. 

Maybe "most interesting" would have been better than either best or worst.

[ten ocho recon scout]

AJ, and am not trying to hijack the thread, but why are you (and a few others) as high on heyward as you are? And im not saying youre wrong (i defer to your advanced numbers), but do you think his bat would do much to help our offense?

Just from how i see it, i think he would be a good signing if he was fairly inexpensive, and we were getting another legit bat. But i think he gets paid huge, and if that stops is from getting another bat, not sure hes the guy.

[Homebrewer]

Where are you going to play 2 "bats" if you get them?

With Pujols in the lineup, it really only leaves LF as a place to put another "slugger".

Maybe if Pujols agrees to DH next season, we might have a spot for another "big bat" at 1B, which means Cron would need to be moved...

Not sure I would give up on Cron just yet, especially since his D has improved.

[Angelsfirst]

AJ, and am not trying to hijack the thread, but why are you (and a few others) as high on heyward as you are? And im not saying youre wrong (i defer to your advanced numbers), but do you think his bat would do much to help our offense?

Just from how i see it, i think he would be a good signing if he was fairly inexpensive, and we were getting another legit bat. But i think he gets paid huge, and if that stops is from getting another bat, not sure hes the guy.

Couldn't agree more. Numbers are solid but not a game changer. Plus the fact that he will be way overpaid in the free agent market. I'd pass on him. Just another contract that the player will never live up to IMO. Edited September 30, 2015 by Angelsfirst