Jered Weaver: "I'm pretty much serving BP up there"

[Angelsjunky]

Here's what is even sadder: A few years ago, Jered's five-year contract looked like a steal. Now it looks like yet another Angels contract dud. The Angels got one great year, one good but injury marred year, one OK year, and this - plus whatever next year is. Not as bad as Hamilton or Pujols, but more like CJ "meh" territory.

[Mile High Dreams]

Benefit of the doubt=Daddy Glasses...

[Jason]

I hope there's something physically wrong that either he's hiding or unaware of that's fixable.

That would be reassuring but his comments today lead me to believe that isn't the case

[Vegas Halo Fan]

That would be reassuring but his comments today lead me to believe that isn't the case

 

I tend to agree. He sounds like a guy who is pretty much out of answers and he is trying like hell to earn his contract.

[AngelsSurfer]

if he's not able to make an adjustment or find some mph, then i wouldn't be surprised in the least to see him retire and come back to the angels in the FO, after a year most likely. he's proven that money is not his motivating factor.

 

ITA with this and what Stradling said - he seems as though he's the sort of pitcher who is acutely aware of what he's doing out there, and has a lot of pride. It's a lot easier for me to imagine him retiring and returning to the Angels in a support or coaching role than it is to imagine that he will be content to struggle along for the remainder of his contract when he knows he's not getting the job done.

Having said that, it's hard to watch him out there right now. I'd like to think he might be able to sort things out but it's not necessarily going to happen.

Edited May 4, 2015 by AngelsSurfer

[Vegas Halo Fan]

He is the kind of guy you root for to make it, but with what I am seeing I'm not sure that is possible. He has definitely lost something, and he realizes it.

[Dick B Back]

It seems like something in his motion and release point. Not only has he lost a couple more MPH, but he's not locating well and leaving it up in the zone. I hope he gets this figured out soon.

[Tyler]

Appreciate his honesty. 

 

He should see what he's got in that left arm though.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Shane

[beatlesrule]

Not to stick up for Weaver or anything but he would have had to pitch a shutout just to get it to extra innings. I agree it's difficult watching him pitch but the pathetic offense isn't helping. Just terrible all around so far.

[Docwaukee]

his horizontal and vertical release point have changed.  

 

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/velo.php?player=450308&b_hand=-1&gFilt=&pFilt=FA|SI|FC|CU|SL|CS|KN|CH|FS|SB&time=month&minmax=ci&var=x0&s_type=2&startDate=03/30/2007&endDate=05/04/2015

 

 

honestly, I have no idea if it means anything or if it can be fixed.  I remember a few years ago he came to spring with the proclamation that he changed his delivery a bit in order to take some stress of his deteriorating shoulder.  Looks like that happened around 2012 per the graphic.  

 

His horizontal release shows that he's getting further and further from the center of the rubber.  This year being the most extreme so far.  That could mean one of two things.  He's either toeing the rubber in a more extreme spot or his mechanics have changed.  

 

His vertical release point has dropped as well.  contiguously over the past 3 years since 2012.  But it's similar this year to last.  

 

Again, I have no idea what this means for him mechanically.  Whether it's been purposeful or is something that has progressed from the standpoint of avoiding further injury.  

 

My feeling, though, is that with his current stuff, he is not long for being part of a rotation with any reasonable success.  So if he's going to be done soon anyway, why not resort back to his previous mechanics that put a bit more stress on his shoulder yet gave him better velocity  and just ride it out as long as he can.  Or, have surgery to repair his shoulder if possible and we'll see him in a year. 

 

Anyway, maybe I am off base, but perhaps a trip to the DL for a couple weeks and then a couple of minor league rehab starts would allow him to figure something out.  

 

It was really tough to see him like that today.  None of us want to see him go out like this.  You could tell by his body language that he was disappointed not because he was missing his spots, but that his stuff just isn't good enough.  

[beatlesrule]

Here's what is even sadder: A few years ago, Jered's five-year contract looked like a steal. Now it looks like yet another Angels contract dud. The Angels got one great year, one good but injury marred year, one OK year, and this - plus whatever next year is. Not as bad as Hamilton or Pujols, but more like CJ "meh" territory.

You are acting like the Angels overpaid him. He would have commanded around 40 million dollars more if he would have went to free agency. It's not a dud at all.

[ELEVEN]

Velo has dropped to the point where he has to dump his changeup. Not effective with a 7 mph difference. He has enough pitches that he can work around the FB. 

[CaliAngel]

his horizontal and vertical release point have changed.  

 

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/velo.php?player=450308&b_hand=-1&gFilt=&pFilt=FA|SI|FC|CU|SL|CS|KN|CH|FS|SB&time=month&minmax=ci&var=x0&s_type=2&startDate=03/30/2007&endDate=05/04/2015

 

 

honestly, I have no idea if it means anything or if it can be fixed.  I remember a few years ago he came to spring with the proclamation that he changed his delivery a bit in order to take some stress of his deteriorating shoulder.  Looks like that happened around 2012 per the graphic.  

 

His horizontal release shows that he's getting further and further from the center of the rubber.  This year being the most extreme so far.  That could mean one of two things.  He's either toeing the rubber in a more extreme spot or his mechanics have changed.  

 

His vertical release point has dropped as well.  contiguously over the past 3 years since 2012.  But it's similar this year to last.  

 

Again, I have no idea what this means for him mechanically.  Whether it's been purposeful or is something that has progressed from the standpoint of avoiding further injury.  

 

My feeling, though, is that with his current stuff, he is not long for being part of a rotation with any reasonable success.  So if he's going to be done soon anyway, why not resort back to his previous mechanics that put a bit more stress on his shoulder yet gave him better velocity  and just ride it out as long as he can.  Or, have surgery to repair his shoulder if possible and we'll see him in a year. 

 

Anyway, maybe I am off base, but perhaps a trip to the DL for a couple weeks and then a couple of minor league rehab starts would allow him to figure something out.  

 

It was really tough to see him like that today.  None of us want to see him go out like this.  You could tell by his body language that he was disappointed not because he was missing his spots, but that his stuff just isn't good enough.  

 

Love these kinds of detailed posts doc. I think the same way when I'm watching our guys bat and throw on the mound, so it's interesting to hear others talk about it. One question though, where on that site do you find the release points and how they change? There's A LOT of info on that page.

 

I am a huge Weaver fan. Have always had the guys back because of his passion and desire to win, and I liked his stuff. I didn't see Weaver pitch today, but his last outing, something was remarkably off about his posture and presence on the mound. He didn't even look like the same guy on the mound. To me it immediately looked like he didn't feel comfortable up there, he was rushing a bit, and I couldn't believe how much sink even his fastballs had to them. Guys on here make jokes but really, it was tough to tell exactly what he was throwing some times.

 

I haven't watched him enough to see what's up, but I hope he figures it out. It's very weird for his velocity to change so much, and all I can think of is that he changing his throwing based off what is comfortable, so maybe his arm hurts like hell. I could never imagine being a pitcher and having a arm and shoulder that hurts, but I imagine with his kind of competitiveness, he's going to keep trying till the thing falls off.

 

Best of luck to you Mr. Jared Weaver, I still have faith.

[Angelsjunky]

It isn't that complex or mystifying as to why his velocity went down. I think it was Scotty that explained it a year or two ago as being like a rubber band - once you lose tension in whatever ligaments and tendons are involved it is impossible to gain it back. Velocity isn't just about arm strength, its about tension.

 

A mechanical adjustment might give him a mph or two, but that's about it.

[Angelsjunky]

You are acting like the Angels overpaid him. He would have commanded around 40 million dollars more if he would have went to free agency. It's not a dud at all.

 

It was a good deal at the time, but Jered was coming off two years and his velocity didn't really start declining until the first year of his contract. If we project that he won't get much better this year and next and that he wants to play out his contract, then yes, it was somewhat of an overpay. Consider:

 

2012: Excellent (#1-2)

2013: Good, but missed a couple months (#2-3)

2014: Above Average (#3)

2015: Poor

2016: Poor

 

If we average out the first three years and consider 2015-16 essentially worthless, then we're talking about three years of a #2 starter for $77M.

[Angelsjunky]

Who knows though, here's hoping that he can make some adjustments and at least get back to being decent. Before the year I was predicting a drop to the around the 4.00 ERA range; that seems very optimistic at this point, but we can still hope.

[nando714]

Maybe weav gets it and will retire at the end of the season

[Stradling]

The Angels should have a coach on staff that specifically works with pitchers.

Maybe he'd be able to help?

Not in Weavers case.

[Glen]

The Angels should have a coach on staff that specifically works with pitchers.

Maybe he'd be able to help?

 

 

And if that works, perhaps they could think about doing the same thing for the hitters.

[Jay]

It might help if we scored a few runs and put some pressure on the opponent.

 

 

 

But it doesn't look good.

[Jim]

Weaver strikes me as the kind of guy who would go to the club and tell them that it's over rather than just hang around and collect a paycheck, knowing that he isn't helping the team. His candid statements about his performance tell you that he isn't under any kind of delusion about how things are going.

Sounds good, but this contract is no doubt his last. He will most definitely collect every bit of what's coming to him, and rightfully so. 

[Angel Oracle]

He might need to go the Jeff Weaver route, if this continues through June. Go to a NL team for the rest of the contract.

[jimbo]

He cut the team a huge break once, It's unlikely he'll do it again by leaving even more money on the table.

[Jim]

As much as he loves his team and teammates. I'm fairly certain he loves his family more. 

[Taylor]

Weav's done as an MLB starter. It's hard to let go because of how good he's been and how much he's meant to the Angels and the fans and the other way around.

 

I'm having a really tough time letting go.