Klaw: "Darin Erstad gets named on one ballot. Glad every voter takes his responsibility seriously."

[Jeff Fletcher]

Does the HOF still have that whole character thing as part of the criteria?  

 

Yes.

 

Jeff, I think one of the biggest challenges I find with the system isn't that many of these writers who now view themselves as guardians of the game...and our children (steroid use...what will we tell our children...*faint*)...and yet they were the ones covering the game during the steroid days, and I don't recall seeing a lot of articles about steroid use. They talk about these "whispers"...and yet none of them were talking about these whispers, or apparently looking very hard to identify if they were true...during the steroid era. More than just a little appearance of hypocrisy there. If baseball turned a blind eye...they had a lot of willing accomplices.

 

I don't think that people who failed to report on steroid use should be precluded from having an opinion today that it's wrong.

 

Reporting on it is not that easy. You basically are relying on what people are willing to tell you. If no one wants to talk about it, then what do you do? I had a lot players in the 90s tell me who they thought was cheating, but no one would go on the record accusing anyone.

 

To this day, most of the information that's been unearthed about steroid use came because of efforts by law enforcement like the FBI. Also, what has been reported on steroids has mostly come from news reporters, not sports writers. You simply can't do that kind of investigation while you're covering baseball.

[Lou]

Yes.

 

 

I don't think that people who failed to report on steroid use should be precluded from having an opinion today that it's wrong.

 

Reporting on it is not that easy. You basically are relying on what people are willing to tell you. If no one wants to talk about it, then what do you do? I had a lot players in the 90s tell me who they thought was cheating, but no one would go on the record accusing anyone.

 

To this day, most of the information that's been unearthed about steroid use came because of efforts by law enforcement like the FBI. Also, what has been reported on steroids has mostly come from news reporters, not sports writers. You simply can't do that kind of investigation while you're covering baseball.

 

...and Jose Canseco  

[mtangelsfan]

and Jeff Bagwell.

[red321]

Yes.

 

 

I don't think that people who failed to report on steroid use should be precluded from having an opinion today that it's wrong.

 

Reporting on it is not that easy. You basically are relying on what people are willing to tell you. If no one wants to talk about it, then what do you do? I had a lot players in the 90s tell me who they thought was cheating, but no one would go on the record accusing anyone.

 

To this day, most of the information that's been unearthed about steroid use came because of efforts by law enforcement like the FBI. Also, what has been reported on steroids has mostly come from news reporters, not sports writers. You simply can't do that kind of investigation while you're covering baseball.

 

I'm not sure I can agree with you. I understand the reporting on that is tricky, and you are relying on information from players and don't want to burn sources. But many of the people currently residing on the fainting couch, worried about the children and the good of the game...were some of the loudest cheerleaders back then. And if they are allowed to anoint themselves the protectors of the pastime now...why weren't they doing everything they could to unearth, or report, on those issues back then. Yes, reporting is hard...but that's why we have reporters...not PR people.

 

Not a whiff Jeff. Not even a hint. McGwire makes sure everyone sees a can of protein powder in his locker and everyone snickers and ignores the huge elephant in the room. Nobody followed up on the Mitchell report (which was a white wash to begin with).

 

I actually don't begrudge the players...the league made it quite obvious they were turning a blind eye. What I find amusing is now, after the fact, after the sport rebounded, after billions have been earned and mega media deals have been signed...now everyone is going to say tsk tsk. Shame on you Barry, Shame on you Roger. Thanks for the billions.

[Lou]

i think it's great that those 2 Aholes have to go through this

 

it makes me smile

[YouthofToday]

The fact that Vin Scully doesn't have a hall of fame vote but some clown who voted for Erstad does indicates a failed state of affairs.

[Lou]

The fact that Vin Scully doesn't have a hall of fame vote but some clown who voted for Erstad does indicates a failed state of affairs.

I'm beginning to think that you don't like the fact that Erstad got a vote.

[Blarg]

i'm more surprised at Schilling's low vote total than Barry's

 

He had a lower T total as well.

[Thomas]

[ten ocho recon scout]

...and Jose Canseco

that should become the new 'pubes'. Randomly drop it on here in different topics.

Canseco was huge in blowing the lid off. Personally, i think it was shady how he did it. He didnt do it as a 'ive changed my ways and want to come clean', it was a scorned girlfriend thing. That said, it got the wheels moving.

But before him, guys like caminitti and schilling (believe it or not) were saying the same. Canseco just got taken more serious because he wrote a very poorly written book. (The best part was him writing it in a 'im still a celebrity' tone....like the chapter on banging madonna....gross)

[ten ocho recon scout]

The fact that Vin Scully doesn't have a hall of fame vote but some clown who voted for Erstad does indicates a failed state of affairs.

Vin scully is a dodger....there is nothing wrong with that fact.

[Lou]

also, perhaps you should save your disgust for Aaron Boone getting 2 votes.

 

Erstad's numbers put Boone's to shame. 

[YouthofToday]

also, perhaps you should save your disgust for Aaron Boone getting 2 votes.

Erstad's numbers put Boone's to shame.

Both players didn't deserve a vote. Shows how much the current process that exclusively relies on the BBWAA is utterly broken.

[Jeff Fletcher]

Both players didn't deserve a vote. Shows how much the current process that exclusively relies on the BBWAA is utterly broken.

Yeah those 3 votes out of the 4000 definitely show it's broken.

And if you read the explanation for one of the Boone votes you wouldn't think thst. He convinced Hal McCoy not to quit after he started losing his sight.

[stormngt]

Are you that ignorant? Bonds without a doubt used steroids. Popularity has nothing to do with it. Now others may have used steroids too but Bonds without a reasonable doubt did use them.

Yeah we all know why those guys didnt get in. Because they didnt kiss ass all the time and they didnt make the baseball writers fall in love with them.

You basically just said the hall of fame is a popularity contest which has nothing to do with actual baseball talent.

[stormngt]

We don't that is why Griffey and Thomas are given the benefit of the doubt. There is no doubt on Bonds.

If youre going to punish a few players from that era why not punish all of them? How do we know Griffey and Frank Thomas never cheated either?

Edited January 10, 2015 by stormngt

[stormngt]

Yes wife beaters, drunk drivers, are ok. But gamblers. Hell no!!!

Those guys shouldn't get in either.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Of course it is silly for Erstad to get a vote, although just as silly is that no one ever gets in unanimously. 

 

It isn't any more silly than voters saying that they won't vote for any player in his first year of eligibility, as if players somehow become more deserving the second time around.

 

Just make it a fan vote. That has worked really well for the All Star Game. We would have to wait for the construction of the Yankees and Red Sox Wing at the Baseball Hall of Fame Museum though.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Vegas Halo Fan

[Lou]

Yes wife beaters, drunk drivers, are ok. But gamblers. Hell no!!!

 

show  us where those two, in and of themselves,  are against mlb rules. 

 

the HOF  isn't run by mlb,  but they  want to make sure they don't piss them off

[Oz27]

show  us where those two, in and of themselves,  are against mlb rules. 

 

the HOF  isn't run by mlb,  but they  want to make sure they don't piss them off

I think we can assume wife beating is against MLB rules, because any player who did what Ray Rice did would inevitably face a long suspension and/or contract termination under the commissioner's discretionary powers.

[Lou]

I think we can assume wife beating is against MLB rules, because any player who did what Ray Rice did would inevitably face a long suspension and/or contract termination under the commissioner's discretionary powers.

 

you can't possibly believe that no mlb players have been arrested for domestic violence in the past.

 

there were no specific rules in mlb prior to the end of last season regarding domestic violence.  

No current member in the HOF played under those guidelines,

Edited January 11, 2015 by Lou

[YouthofToday]

Should we play the moral high ground game or cling to MLB rules and then throw wild accusations out at players without any concrete evidence?

Yes, it is only my opinion but Pete Rose, Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens should be in the Hall of Fame.

That said, I really could care less about who is in Hall now. All these debates just show me what a farce that entity has become.

[Stradling]

Then stay out of these threads if that is what you have to add? You complain about their standards and voting practices, then you say you don't care. Just avoid these threads or dont.

[QuinlansMinion]

Then stay out of these threads if that is what you have to add? You complain about their standards and voting practices, then you say you don't care. Just avoid these threads or dont.

 

Just out of curiosity, do you completely dismiss our federal justice system in everything?  Or just when it comes to MLB players.

[Stradling]

Just out of curiosity, do you completely dismiss our federal justice system in everything? Or just when it comes to MLB players.

Oh you're participating in this thread again? I don't have a vote or else I might vote a little different. But if you honestly think that these guys aren't guilty of taking steroids you're the only one.