Klaw: "Darin Erstad gets named on one ballot. Glad every voter takes his responsibility seriously."

[QuinlansMinion]

You still haven't explained why it's relevant there are other steroid users in the Hall of Fame.

 

It's a really terrible argument. Imagine getting hauled in front of a judge for DUI and saying "My friend Jim drove home from the bar plastered last week and didn't get caught or punished therefore you should let me go". That would get laughed out of court.

 

 

How many Hall of Fames has Lou been elected to?

Because this has nothing to do with DUI's.  This is about baseball.  Nobody ever had a problem letting roid users in until now.  There are many users in the hall, if the Hall of Fame doesnt allow cheaters then they should kick anyone out who was ever accused of using.

 

And stop with the DUI argument, its a horrible analogy and makes no sense.  

[Lou]

Because this has nothing to do with DUI's.  This is about baseball.  Nobody ever had a problem letting roid users in until now.  There are many users in the hall, if the Hall of Fame doesnt allow cheaters then they should kick anyone out who was ever accused of using.

 

And stop with the DUI argument, its a horrible analogy and makes no sense.  

 

which known steroid users are in the HOF?

[Lou]

Amphetamines have been around since at least the 60s - steroids since the 70s. If people want to be purists about not cheating folks may not like what they find...

 

amphetamines weren't banned by mlb until 2006 

[Lou]

Sounds like a HOF player to me!

 

BTW, Pete Rose belongs. It's the one decision I don't understand at all.

 

Should OJ give the Heisman back?

 

OJ should give his life back

[Stradling]

I like QM's bravato with all this. He basically hates the HOF but comes into each thread and tells us all that Bonds is the shit and belongs in the Hall. He completely ignores that we all agree Bonds was a great player, but ignores the cheating aspect. He then lashes out at us for having standards. Or he simply puts words in our mouth about this entire subject. Never change QM, please.

[QuinlansMinion]

He then lashes out at us for having standards. Or he simply puts words in our mouth about this entire subject. Never change QM, please.

 

How was I lashing out?  If anything you're just a bit too sensitive about this.  Its just an argument im making, im not lashing out at anyone.

 

But since I seemed to offend you ill stop arguing about it.  You win, Bonds is a cheater and doesnt belong in the hall.  

[Lou]

in fairness to QM, he isn't the only one saying we are wrong

for having standards, nor is he the only one telling us how we

should feel about cheaters being elected to the HOF.

[Stradling]

I'm not offended I just think it's funny.

[QuinlansMinion]

I'm not offended I just think it's funny.

I wont be arguing about this anymore.  Ill be interested to see the next few years if yours and the HOF voters criteria will stay the same.  There will be more steroid names on the ballot and I have a feeling one of them will get in.

[Lou]

I wont be arguing about this anymore.  Ill be interested to see the next few years if yours and the HOF voters criteria will stay the same.  There will be more steroid names on the ballot and I have a feeling one of them will get in.

 

i'm sure one of them will. 

 

as for my criteria, you don't have to wait.  It won't change

[Ochocinco!]

You mean that hack who has less home runs than Barry Bonds.

This is the f*cking funniest post I have ever read ever. Jesus Christ..

[Lou]

This is the f*cking funniest post I have ever read ever. Jesus Christ..

 

yep.  i think he was kidding in calling Aaron a hack

 

at least i hope he was

[QuinlansMinion]

yep.  i think he was kidding in calling Aaron a hack

 

at least i hope he was

I knew somebody would take it seriously.  

[Ochocinco!]

Regardless it was hilarious I was taking it as a joke anyway.

Furthermore, the day Schilling and Ortiz are HOF's is the day I give up on baseball.

[QuinlansMinion]

Regardless it was hilarious I was taking it as a joke anyway.

Furthermore, the day Schilling and Ortiz are HOF's is the day I give up on baseball.

After all the media hype he got last year, id say Ortiz is a lock.  Every voter will turn a blind eye to his involvement with PEDs.

[Ochocinco!]

Exactly, going to enjoy baseball as much as I can until then. Go Team!

[CaliAngel]

...injecting himself in the ass with boom boom juice.

 

AngelsWin should adopt a word filter so when "steroids" is typed, it instead replaces the word with "boom boom juice" - well done tdawg, you never disappoint.

 

As for the guys who "may" have done boom boom juice but never got caught and found themselves in the HOF: as far as I'm concerned, at a point in time MLB drew a line. They made the rules, then went from there. I'm sure a bunch of guys were doing stupid stuff and breaking records that never got caught, but it's all he said she said speculation at this point. I can't stand how some people want to take a solid line and bend it with asterisks and excuses just because they like the players. Boom boom juice was not allowed and banned, and that's it. If these were guys before the ban thought that what they were doing wasn't cheating, why would they deny it and hide the fact that they took it? Even though they knew they would get caught and so many people knew what happened?

 

I'm not a fan of the steroids era, at all. But at some point, you have to give it up, and understand these guys knew they were cheating. They denied it to try and save their asses, then fans want them to be inducted into the Hall of Fame. And IMO that just shouldn't happen. Sorry Bonds, Hank Aaron did it legally, you were obviously doing boom boom juice, hope you enjoyed your fame at the time, but that's all you get.

 

By the way, let's not forget this thread is about DARIN EFFING ERSTAD, one of the most fearless and badass Angels to ever play the game. I'm glad he got a vote.

 

He definitely deserved it.

[Stradling]

Well QM I don't get a vote so my criteria is meaningless. Bonds will get in as will Clemens so you won't have to wait too long.

[Lou]

i'm more surprised at Schilling's low vote total than Barry's

[YouthofToday]

Erstad did not deserve a vote. The fact that he did made a mockery of the selection process.

[red321]

Would it be crazy to say that fans should be included in the voting system? 

 

Sweet...more Yankee and RedSox players in the hall! Woohoo. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

Chiming with a few things....

 

1. This thread has illustrated that the BBWAA is not to be blamed for keeping PED guys out of the Hall. The BBWAA has the same difference of opinion that fans/broadcasters/players have. Unless the HOF says specifically to the voters that they want the PED guys in or they don't, it's going to be a divisive issue, no matter who votes. I don't believe the HOF will ever do this, because they'd rather pass the buck and have fans blame someone other than them.

 

2. As for Pete Rose, again the HOF decided that he's not eligible. Not the BBWAA. He has never appeared on a ballot.

 

3. It frustrates me to see people disparage the entire voting body based on the actions of a tiny percentage. In whatever job any of you do, I'm sure if I found 549 people in that profession, I could find a few that did something strange.

[red321]

Jeff, I think one of the biggest challenges I find with the system isn't that many of these writers who now view themselves as guardians of the game...and our children (steroid use...what will we tell our children...*faint*)...and yet they were the ones covering the game during the steroid days, and I don't recall seeing a lot of articles about steroid use. They talk about these "whispers"...and yet none of them were talking about these whispers, or apparently looking very hard to identify if they were true...during the steroid era. More than just a little appearance of hypocrisy there. If baseball turned a blind eye...they had a lot of willing accomplices.

[Inside Pitch]

Chiming with a few things....

 

1. This thread has illustrated that the BBWAA is not to be blamed for keeping PED guys out of the Hall. The BBWAA has the same difference of opinion that fans/broadcasters/players have. Unless the HOF says specifically to the voters that they want the PED guys in or they don't, it's going to be a divisive issue, no matter who votes. I don't believe the HOF will ever do this, because they'd rather pass the buck and have fans blame someone other than them.

 

2. As for Pete Rose, again the HOF decided that he's not eligible. Not the BBWAA. He has never appeared on a ballot.

 

3. It frustrates me to see people disparage the entire voting body based on the actions of a tiny percentage. In whatever job any of you do, I'm sure if I found 549 people in that profession, I could find a few that did something strange.

 

 

Jeff,

 

Does the HOF still have that whole character thing as part of the criteria?   Its been a long time since I bothered to look, but so long as that's there, it's pretty much a free for all.  The whole pushing agendas thing gets old, but it's always going to happen.  I agree the voters catch too much flak.

 

Regulation the HOF voting seems an awful lot like herding cats.  I wouldn't want either job.

[Lou]

i don't blame the BBWAA at all for keeping certain players out.

 

i blame the players for their actions. Those actions made it an issue