Arte notes

[eaterfan]

The city can sell the land and still make money on apartments, restaurants, shops that could go on the site. Stadiums generate revenue for the area around the stadium but at the expense of other areas of the city. Studies have shown people spend the same amount of money on entertainment whether there is a sports team there or not. So in addition to giving Arte a bunch of land to develop the city would essentially be taking money from the businesses in other parts of the city.

[Inside Pitch]

So the City of Anaheim needs to give Arte Moreno all that land to develop to retain the bragging rights to a team that doesn't want to be called the Anaheim Angels.

 

You realize it was the CITY, that offered the land as a trade off so that the Angels would invest $$$$ into the stadium.. Right?  See it's their hope that rather than have the stadium fall behind other venues, someone else spend the money to modernize the stadium beyond the cosmetic changes Disney made in the 90s -- particularly since they have yet to pay off their 20 million investment in that makeover.  

 

So to recap, they still owe on the 20 mil they spent..  They don't have the money to modernize the stadium's infrastructure, and they don't have anyone else ready to move in but, according to Tait, they are just looking out for it's citizenry.   Okay.

 

http://www.fieldofschemes.com/category/mlb/los-angeles-angels-of-anaheim/   This link pretty much has a solid timeline of whats happened to date..

 

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/city-528477-stadium-angels.html  This link points out the $$ coming in Vs going out.

 

I have no clue what Arte's plans are.  I have no idea what options the city of Anaheim has, but given they can't even figure out what the land is worth I doubt they have any plans in place.  What I do know is if the Angels bolt, the COA takes on the everyday costs of keeping the Stadium maintained, estimated to be between 130 and 150 million over the next 20 years.   So instead of making 3-5 million in Tax dollars per year, they would be looking to pay those costs.  Whether or not giving Arte that land makes sense -- I don't have an opinion on.  But if he is willing to put all the money into developing the land and the city stands to benefit tax wise, it seems like a net gain.  What's more, 66 years down the road, the City still owns that land.

 

I hope the two sides come to an agreement that works but at the end of the day... I doubt the MLB Angels will have a hard time finding someone willing to work with them. 

Edited February 15, 2014 by Inside Pitch

[Stradling]

The city can sell the land and still make money on apartments, restaurants, shops that could go on the site. Stadiums generate revenue for the area around the stadium but at the expense of other areas of the city. Studies have shown people spend the same amount of money on entertainment whether there is a sports team there or not. So in addition to giving Arte a bunch of land to develop the city would essentially be taking money from the businesses in other parts of the city.

That's assuming the people that are eating at the new places next to the stadium would have eaten somewhere else in Anaheim. I have season tickets and go to quite a few games a year and seldom eat in Anaheim. When I do eat in Anaheim I go to Mexi Casa, which is basically free food because they are grossly under priced for the portions and quality. I can assure you that if there were bars and restaurants within walking distance I would absolutely hit them up before and after games, especially on weekends.

[Inside Pitch]

Have any of you been to some of the great venues for games? I know a bunch of AW members went to Wrigley and one of the things that stood out to me was the entire ballpark is surrounded by restaurants and bars so every game is like going to a party.

Angels stadium is plunked in the middle of acres and acres of asphalt. No amount of facelifts improve the general atmosphere of the game day experience, it is a drive in and drive out venue where traffic is diverted to keep it directed towards leaving the area.

Rethink your image of how you would like to make the day or night you go to the game play out. Grumptown wants to complain about parking structure traffic but much of that dissapears when many of the patrons walk out of the stadium and into a selection of post game stops. Families can take their kids home to bed, the rest can hang out for a while.

This doesn't take place in a field of open asphalt. So when a developer comes along with a plan to make the entire Angels experience better maybe you guys should ask yourself first us this what you want or do you really give a damn how a city with tax revenue from the the world famous Disney resort could possibly be in financial trouble when the neighboring cities are doing fine.

 

Amen...  

[Stradling]

You realize it was the CITY, that offered the land as a trade off so that the Angels would invest $$$$ into the stadium.. Right? See it's their hope that rather than have the stadium fall behind other venues, someone else spend the money to modernize the stadium beyond the cosmetic changes Disney made in the 90s -- particularly since they have yet to pay off their 20 million investment in that makeover.

So to recap, they still owe on the 20 mil they spent.. They don't have the money to modernize the stadium's infrastructure, and they don't have anyone else ready to move in but, according to Tait, they are just looking out for it's citizenry. Okay.

http://www.fieldofschemes.com/category/mlb/los-angeles-angels-of-anaheim/ This link pretty much has a solid timeline of whats happened to date..

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/city-528477-stadium-angels.html This link points out the $$ coming in Vs going out.

I have no clue what Arte's plans are. I have no idea what options the city of Anaheim has, but given they can't even figure out what the land is worth I doubt they have any plans in place. What I do know is if the Angels bolt, the COA takes on the everyday costs of keeping the Stadium maintained, estimated to be between 130 and 150 million over the next 20 years. So instead of making 3-5 million in Tax dollars per year, they would be looking to pay those costs. Whether or not giving Arte that land makes sense -- I don't have an opinion on. But if he is willing to put all the money into developing the land and the city stands to benefit tax wise, it seems like a net gain. What's more, 66 years down the road, the City still owns that land.

I hope the two sides come to an agreement that works but at the end of the day... I doubt the MLB Angels will have a hard time finding someone willing to work with them.

Great post IP.

[Inside Pitch]

That's assuming the people that are eating at the new places next to the stadium would have eaten somewhere else in Anaheim. I have season tickets and go to quite a few games a year and seldom eat in Anaheim. When I do eat in Anaheim I go to Mexi Casa, which is basically free food because they are grossly under priced for the portions and quality. I can assure you that if there were bars and restaurants within walking distance I would absolutely hit them up before and after games, especially on weekends.

 

 

LOL..  Mexi-Casa...  I miss that place.  Will be nice to go there again once I move back to So-Cal next year.

[Stradling]

I have been eating at MC since I was a kid, it's crazy that you can still eat there for about $5 a plate.

[biltoo]

The Angels need a new stadium. There are plenty of good restaurants in Anaheim. I like Arte but threatening to move the team away from a loyal fan base......Really???

Arte baby....

 

Have any of you been to some of the great venues for games? I know a bunch of AW members went to Wrigley and one of the things that stood out to me was the entire ballpark is surrounded by restaurants and bars so every game is like going to a party.

Angels stadium is plunked in the middle of acres and acres of asphalt. No amount of facelifts improve the general atmosphere of the game day experience, it is a drive in and drive out venue where traffic is diverted to keep it directed towards leaving the area.

Rethink your image of how you would like to make the day or night you go to the game play out. Grumptown wants to complain about parking structure traffic but much of that dissapears when many of the patrons walk out of the stadium and into a selection of post game stops. Families can take their kids home to bed, the rest can hang out for a while.

This doesn't take place in a field of open asphalt. So when a developer comes along with a plan to make the entire Angels experience better maybe you guys should ask yourself first us this what you want or do you really give a damn how a city with tax revenue from the the world famous Disney resort could possibly be in financial trouble when the neighboring cities are doing fine.

Maybe cause they make deal like the one your talking about here.

[eaterfan]

That's assuming the people that are eating at the new places next to the stadium would have eaten somewhere else in Anaheim. I have season tickets and go to quite a few games a year and seldom eat in Anaheim. When I do eat in Anaheim I go to Mexi Casa, which is basically free food because they are grossly under priced for the portions and quality. I can assure you that if there were bars and restaurants within walking distance I would absolutely hit them up before and after games, especially on weekends.

 

 

I'm not sure what your argument is. Is it that the stadium draws you to eat in Anaheim as is suggested when you say you eat at MC when you go to games so the stadium generates revenue? Because if so even you point out that you rarely eat in Anaheim even with the stadium there.

 

I'm not arguing that restaurants around the stadium wouldn't make money. I'm just suggesting they wouldn't make more money for the city than new places anywhere else in the city. If they sell the land to a development company and build another Spectrum type place it would probably generate as much revenue as the Angels and Arte's development would.

[Blarg]

That's assuming the people that are eating at the new places next to the stadium would have eaten somewhere else in Anaheim. I have season tickets and go to quite a few games a year and seldom eat in Anaheim. When I do eat in Anaheim I go to Mexi Casa, which is basically free food because they are grossly under priced for the portions and quality. I can assure you that if there were bars and restaurants within walking distance I would absolutely hit them up before and after games, especially on weekends.

 

That is exactly the Wrigley type experience. The ballpark is the mid way part of the game day experience. Arrive early, hang with friends and get excited about the game, go and have fun then filter out into some nightlife while the parents and kids go home. Hey, you might even lose that single status if this took place.

 

On the Anaheim Stadium event calendar for March is the Jobs Expo on the 20th. All concerts have been moved to the Honda center so unless a motorhome expo comes along that lot is pretty much empty all day, every day.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Eric Notti

[Thomas]

The city can sell the land and still make money on apartments, restaurants, shops that could go on the site. Stadiums generate revenue for the area around the stadium but at the expense of other areas of the city. Studies have shown people spend the same amount of money on entertainment whether there is a sports team there or not. So in addition to giving Arte a bunch of land to develop the city would essentially be taking money from the businesses in other parts of the city.

 

Except most cities that host professional teams are quite a bit larger in both population and geographic area. The vast majority of fans are coming from outside the city limits. So instead of stealing business from other areas of the city, they are stealing revenue from other cities in the greater SoCal market.

 

This isn't to suggest that the COA just throw money at the Angels which they don't have to stay but it certainly would mean that they have a rooting interest to find a solution that works for both parities.

[mancini79]

I don't see what the fuss is about. You can pregame at Del Taco and walk to the stadium.

[Inside Pitch]

 

I'm not arguing that restaurants around the stadium wouldn't make money. I'm just suggesting they wouldn't make more money for the city than new places anywhere else in the city. If they sell the land to a development company and build another Spectrum type place it would probably generate as much revenue as the Angels and Arte's development would.

 

That's just it, do they even want to sell the land?  Check the links I posted, the COA, can't even figure out what the land is worth, you would think if they had any real intent to sell the land previously they would have looked into it before now.  As it stands the appraisal being done will be finished in March... so, it's possible both parties are waiting on the results.

 

 

It will be interesting to see if the COA would be willing to sell the land to Moreno, and if Arte would be willing to pay. 

[Blarg]

Except most cities that host professional teams are quite a bit larger in both population and geographic area. The vast majority of fans are coming from outside the city limits. So instead of stealing business from other areas of the city, they are stealing revenue from other cities in the greater SoCal market.

 

This isn't to suggest that the COA just throw money at the Angels which they don't have to stay but it certainly would mean that they have a rooting interest to find a solution that works for both parities.

 

Are you nuts? Really, the geographic area of Southern California for a fanbase is part of the 2nd largest media market in the US. That is a combined population of Orange and LA County (that starts 8 miles from the stadium) of 13 million people. Anaheim itself has a larger population than Cincinnati and Pittsburg just off the top of my head.

 

I challenge you to see any geographic divider line between Anaheim and the other cities surrounding it, there is no longer any orange or strawberry fields of the 60's, it is non stop metro from Anaheim West to El Segundo, north to the San Gabriel foothills and South to Newport Beach. That is a population dense are to draw from.

 

As for stealing business, that is silly. It would be offering opportunity for more business and employment for the area. It's called growth.

[Thomas]

Are you nuts? Really, the geographic area of Southern California for a fanbase is part of the 2nd largest media market in the US. That is a combined population of Orange and LA County (that starts 8 miles from the stadium) of 13 million people. Anaheim itself has a larger population than Cincinnati and Pittsburg just off the top of my head.

 

I challenge you to see any geographic divider line between Anaheim and the other cities surrounding it, there is no longer any orange or strawberry fields of the 60's, it is non stop metro from Anaheim West to El Segundo, north to the San Gabriel foothills and South to Newport Beach. That is a population dense are to draw from.

 

As for stealing business, that is silly. It would be offering opportunity for more business and employment for the area. It's called growth.

 

I'm guessing you missed my point by like...a lot.

[Stradling]

I'm not sure what your argument is. Is it that the stadium draws you to eat in Anaheim as is suggested when you say you eat at MC when you go to games so the stadium generates revenue? Because if so even you point out that you rarely eat in Anaheim even with the stadium there.

I'm not arguing that restaurants around the stadium wouldn't make money. I'm just suggesting they wouldn't make more money for the city than new places anywhere else in the city. If they sell the land to a development company and build another Spectrum type place it would probably generate as much revenue as the Angels and Arte's development would.

I may have missed your point but I'll explain my point. You said that people spend the same amount of money on entertainment whether there is a team or not so it wouldn't generate more revenue. My point is that I will spend more of my entertainment money in the COA if it was easier to do so. So it would generate more revenue for the city and not just take it from another business in Anaheim.

[mtangelsfan]

I'll admit I haven't been in the area much in the last 8 years but the last time I checked the big center that used to be "The City" that they put a lot of money into was pretty down in the dumps.  That is pretty much kitty corner from the 5 and 22 from Angel Stadium.

 

Why would anyone think that a brand new center on the old Angel Stadium property would be any more successful without the draw of an MLB franchise?  

 

I really doubt there are developers lined up to do that.

[Pbonetheman]

Angel stadium is just that: a stadium. There is no feel, experience, or ambiance once you leave the stadium. I would love a downtown setting, or at least more urban one and less strip mall. I am all for developing the parking lot and feel the generated revenue would benefit COA. If there can't be something done, I would support a move to DTLA (Long beach would be my pipe dream), because the infrastructure is already there.

[mrwicked]

I have been eating at MC since I was a kid, it's crazy that you can still eat there for about $5 a plate.

 

the #17 is delicious.

dont forget $4 pitchers of beer.

Edited February 15, 2014 by mrwicked

[Ohtaniland]

Is Arte wanting to draw more people to the stadium or fill the restaurants? Put a winner on the field and the fans will come.

[Blarg]

He wants to do both and keep the money inside the stadium grounds. I don't exactly understand why you want to have everything stuck in the small market Autry mindset but it didn't work then.

 

Angels stadium doesn't have a skyline backdrop like Pittsburg, no ocean view like Petco, Safeco AT&T. It isn't iconic like Fenway or the center of baseball history like Yankee stadium. They have asphalt and the Big A. So anything to bring some personality to the venue and offer options to hang out before and after the game is one of the way you can improve a stadium experience when it is 50 years old and lacks any real personality.

 

It's location provides something our competition in the area, the Dodgers, can't provide and that is easy access and if developed properly a friendly place to hang out and enjoy more than just the game. If they don't capitalize on this then they might have well put the stadium on some lanfill overlooking a slum with nothing to do but sit in traffic jams in and out of the venue.

[Ohtaniland]

He wants to do both and keep the money inside the stadium grounds. I don't exactly understand why you want to have everything stuck in the small market Autry mindset but it didn't work then.

Angels stadium doesn't have a skyline backdrop like Pittsburg, no ocean view like Petco, Safeco AT&T. It isn't iconic like Fenway or the center of baseball history like Yankee stadium. They have asphalt and the Big A. So anything to bring some personality to the venue and offer options to hang out before and after the game is one of the way you can improve a stadium experience when it is 50 years old and lacks any real personality.

It's location provides something our competition in the area, the Dodgers, can't provide and that is easy access and if developed properly a friendly place to hang out and enjoy more than just the game. If they don't capitalize on this then they might have well put the stadium on some lanfill overlooking a slum with nothing to do but sit in traffic jams in and out of the venue.

So no more open air @ngelsWin mid-summer tailgate parties?

[Lhalo]

I'm all for Anaheim leasing the land to Arte in order to build more of a social/entertainment hub. The area around Fig and 11th used to be a total dump but now that LA Live is there it is awesome. Private developers around that vicinity are frothing at the mouth to build more restaurants, hotels and residences. The Orange County area needs something like this and the Platinum Triangle is the perfect place to do it with the 5, 57 and 22 freeways all nearby.

[Inside Pitch]

Is Arte wanting to draw more people to the stadium or fill the restaurants? Put a winner on the field and the fans will come.

 

Billionaires aren't made by thinking small.  Believing it has to be one or the other is a prime example of thinking small.   

[Inside Pitch]

 

Angels stadium doesn't have a skyline backdrop like Pittsburg, no ocean view like Petco, Safeco AT&T. It isn't iconic like Fenway or the center of baseball history like Yankee stadium. They have asphalt and the Big A. So anything to bring some personality to the venue and offer options to hang out before and after the game is one of the way you can improve a stadium experience when it is 50 years old and lacks any real personality.

 

 

 

How cool would it be to have the Big A at the very center of a bunch of restaurants and bars where people could co-mingle and walk around and take in after the game..  Imagine how cool it would be to be outside having dinner on a patio and have the Big A light up above you..

Edited February 15, 2014 by Inside Pitch