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2014 HOF Vote (Angelswin Results are in!)

mancini79

By mancini79
in LA Angels | MLB Daily

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Angelsjunky Hall of Fame

Angelsjunky

Posted
Posted

Coachbulldog, or we could look at PEDs as an unfortunate feature of the game of the late 20th century and early 21st century, and wipe the slate clean. The problem is that its impossible to draw a distinct line between the "guilty" and the "innocent"; it becomes an artificial distinction, like sinners and saintly, or those going to heaven or hell. It is crude, dualistic thinking.

 

What I find hypocritical is overly focusing on the "proven guilty" like Bonds and Clemens. I'm not saying that these are good, upstanding guys, but they were amazing ballplayers with or without steroids.

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Coachbulldog
Coachbulldog

I rarely go on a rant here, but this year's Hall of Fame selection really irritates me. 2014 will go down as the year the Hall of Fame, Baseball Writers, and the various selection committees were full

mancini79
mancini79

Like some of the BWAA's are?

mtangelsfan
mtangelsfan

I don't like this argument at all.  Why should I respect somebody "putting a lot of thought into it" if that thought is poorly reasoned and logically retarded?  

Coachbulldog Double-A

Coachbulldog

Posted
Posted

Coachbulldog, or we could look at PEDs as an unfortunate feature of the game of the late 20th century and early 21st century, and wipe the slate clean. The problem is that its impossible to draw a distinct line between the "guilty" and the "innocent"; it becomes an artificial distinction, like sinners and saintly, or those going to heaven or hell. It is crude, dualistic thinking.

 

What I find hypocritical is overly focusing on the "proven guilty" like Bonds and Clemens. I'm not saying that these are good, upstanding guys, but they were amazing ballplayers with or without steroids.

 

I say either wipe the slate clean and no one from the period gets in or vote the best players in from that era regardless of their connection with PEDs. Trying to have it both ways is huge failure. 

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AngelsLakersFan Hall of Fame

AngelsLakersFan

Posted
Posted

I rarely go on a rant here, but this year's Hall of Fame selection really irritates me. 2014 will go down as the year the Hall of Fame, Baseball Writers, and the various selection committees were fully revealed as hypocrites and the election/selection process as nothing more than a grand farce. 

 

Tony LaRussa has already been elected unanimously by the expansion era committee. Looking at the final stats of LaRussa's managerial career he is certainly a Hall of Fame manager. But using the logic that currently prevails, he should never be enshrined in Cooperstown. Why? LaRussa's Hall of Fame credentials were accumulated managing some of the biggest 'roid users of the entire era. The players that played for him that put up amazing numbers and won hundreds of games that make LaRussa's resume shine will never be in the Hall because the self righteous, guardians of the game will never elect them. However, the man who managed them is allowed in at the first opportunity. Did LaRussa know about the steroid use of Cancesco, McGwire, and the rest of the players? He claims he didn't and voters give him the benefit of the doubt. Really?!?! LaRussa is a lawyer, a bright guy, and yet he had no clue of the rampant PED use going on in his clubhouse?  I believe LaRussa is a liar, but the hypocrisy is the electors refuse to give players like Jeff Bagwell and Mike Piazza the same benefit of the doubt they are giving LaRussa. 

 

By all accounts Tom Glavine is going to be a first ballot Hall of Famer. He will stand there on induction day and proudly accept his enshrinement while writers and purists applaud that he did it the "right way" in an era that was filled with PED use. What a joke. Glavine should be put in the same category as Bonds and Clemens because he is just as much of a participant in the issues of the PED era as any of the juiced up players. It comes down to this legal definition of  accessory:

 

Accessory: contributing to or aiding in the commission of a crime. One who, without being present at the commission of an offense, becomes guilty of such offense, not as a chief actor, but as a participant, as by command, advice, instigation, or concealment; either before or after the fact or commission.

 

Glavine was a high ranking member of the Players Association who was very vocal against instituting any drug testing. He wasn't the only player that resisted but he was one of the most outspoken and, as a leader in the MLBPA, he had a great deal of influence. While Glavine continued to stand on his principles, the PED era continued. If the PED users are considered to have committed "crimes" against baseball then Tom Glavine should be seen as an accessory to these crimes and viewed in the same light as Bonds and Clemens and kept out of the Hall of Fame. 

 

Great post. I can accept the logical consistency of those who believe that no one from the era should be included, even if the concept is sort of ridiculous. The problem continues to be the hypocrisy of everyone involved. Watch when Andy Petite's time comes and he gets plenty of votes - the voters will say 'He was a good guy,' and 'he accepted his punishment and said he was sorry.' While I'm not surprised somewhere along the line this turned into a witch hunt, we lost sight of the truth and the meaning of justice.

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Angel Oracle Hall of Fame

Angel Oracle

Posted
Posted (edited)

Craig Biggio - 3000+ hits, high up on the alltime MLB runs scored list with over 1800
Roger Clemens - 300+ wins and dominant for about 15 years, before the roids rumors started
Tom Glavine - 300+ wins, big game pitcher with a really good career ERA+ 
Greg Maddux - see Glavine and had 350+ wins, plus dominant command unseen by any other pitcher since the 1960s/1970s
Mike Piazza - as great of a hitting catcher as there ever was (most HRs ever for a catcher), very underrated defensively early in his career 
Frank Thomas - 500+ HRs, crazy good OPS+ of 156

 

Tim Raines just misses by a little in my book; really good stats all around, just barely off of HOF caliber.   Maybe in a future year when there aren't as many worthy selections as in this year's potential class.

Same with Morris and Schilling, both big game pitchers, although now that I think about it Schilling is probably more worthy due to Morris' 3.90 career ERA. 

 

I am sort of in Coach's camp, although a few examples are stunning like the change in Sosa's stats by the late 1990s.   I just can't see Sosa ever sniffing the HOF.     I did vote for Clemens, who was dominant before the PEDs era.   Bonds and McGwire took off after they supposedly started using them.

 

I did also think seriously about Mussina, who did clearly have a better career than Morris.

His wins total (270) is really good for the 5 man rotation era, as is his ERA+.  Maybe again like with Schilling and Raines, he gets in when the number of people to vote in is drying up too much.

Edited by Angel Oracle
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happybat4 Rising Star

happybat4

Posted
Posted

I still don't for the life of me understand how people can vote for Morris, yet leave Mussina off the ballot. Mussina was a better pitcher than Glavine and Morris. Also how the hell was Tony Gwynn a first ballot HOF, yet Tim Raines is not in yet. Raines had a higher war, way more walks, much more stolen bases, and still had some pop in his bat. 

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floplag Everyday Player

floplag

Posted
Posted

Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Tom Glavine
Greg Maddux
Mark McGwire
Jack Morris
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Lee Smith

 

i gave it to Raines over Bagwell for the last spot due to time on ballot etc...

 

one of the most talented ballots ive ever conceived of that should net the largest class ever.

 

you can talk steroids all you want but until MLB takes responsibility for its duplicity throwing those associated with it is hypocritical. 

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mancini79 Just Drafted

mancini79

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I have the ballots for:

 

Mark68

jshep

AngelsandRamsFan

Cezero

Mauch

VegasHaloFan

Gotbeer

Stradling

Cory

Mattyball

DW711

Hamiltown

Brianvargo

Notmycat

Southpaw

Angelsbaseball

Agaloch

decinces11

xboom

Galeric

McKigney

AngelsLakersfan

maximus

summit21

happybat

Thomas Crow

NJHalo

Angelsjunky

Adam

Homebrewer

Inside Pitch

True Grich

Tank

AO

floplag

 

Get your ballots in by tomorrow evening. I'll post the percentages tomorrow night and we can compare our results to the BWAA results on Wednesday.

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Inside Pitch Hall of Fame

Inside Pitch

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yet another example of why the HOF has become as meaningless as the Gold Gloves award....  Clowns like this guy get to vote and do crap like this,

 

_________________

Wow. Time to surrender your ballot, Ken. “@RedSoxFannnn: @kengurnick only voted for Jack Morris on his HOF ballot. What a disgrace!”

_________________

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/how-mlbcom-writers-voted-in-hall-of-fame-balloting?ymd=20140106&content_id=66341930&vkey=news_mlb

 

KEN GURNICK, Dodgers beat reporter
Morris

Morris has flaws -- a 3.90 ERA, for example. But he gets my vote for more than a decade of ace performance that included three 20-win seasons, Cy Young Award votes in seven seasons and Most Valuable Players votes in five. As for those who played during the period of PED use, I won't vote for any of them.

Edited by Inside Pitch
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jsnpritchett Hall of Fame

jsnpritchett

Posted
Posted

Yet another example of why the HOF has become as meaningless as the Gold Gloves award....  Clowns like this guy get to vote and do crap like this,

 

_________________

Wow. Time to surrender your ballot, Ken. “@RedSoxFannnn: @kengurnick only voted for Jack Morris on his HOF ballot. What a disgrace!”

_________________

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/how-mlbcom-writers-voted-in-hall-of-fame-balloting?ymd=20140106&content_id=66341930&vkey=news_mlb

 

KEN GURNICK, Dodgers beat reporter

Morris

Morris has flaws -- a 3.90 ERA, for example. But he gets my vote for more than a decade of ace performance that included three 20-win seasons, Cy Young Award votes in seven seasons and Most Valuable Players votes in five. As for those who played during the period of PED use, I won't vote for any of them.

 

I was just about to create a separate post for this.  Unbelievable.  That guy's voting privileges should be pulled immediately.

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