Article on Peter Gammons' site

[AngelsLakersFan]

Small.

 

Sample.

 

Sizes.

[Troll Daddy]

I'm more clutch than anybody on this board. I have no evidence or facts yet I just know it. To doubt my clutchiness is to question the basic art of being clutch.

 

So your saying that pressure, nervousness, and anxiety doesn't exist  in sports? I have to wonder if you ever played sports.

[m0nkey]

So your saying that pressure, nervousness, and anxiety doesn't exist in sports? I have to wonder if you ever played sports.

I wonder if you know that these players have had enormous pressure, nervousness, and anxiety on the road to playing in major league baseball.

[Mark68]

This part of the article cannot be overlooked:

 

"The Cardinals seem to make rational, passionless decisions about what a player will be going forward and the Angels make decisions about who players were before. You don’t have to look beyond the last two offseasons to see this pattern in action."

 

As far as the whole "clutch" "stat", the Cardinals led the universe in hitting with RISP during the regular season, but could not buy a hit in that scenario during the World Series. How clutch was that?

[YouthofToday]

This part of the article cannot be overlooked:

"The Cardinals seem to make rational, passionless decisions about what a player will be going forward and the Angels make decisions about who players were before. You don’t have to look beyond the last two offseasons to see this pattern in action."

As far as the whole "clutch" "stat", the Cardinals led the universe in hitting with RISP during the regular season, but could not buy a hit in that scenario during the World Series. How clutch was that?

Napoli's grit is more powerful than the Cardinals' clutchiness. Duh.

[YouthofToday]

So your saying that pressure, nervousness, and anxiety doesn't exist in sports? I have to wonder if you ever played sports.

I never claimed that. You don't get paid millions of dollars as an athlete unless you can already handle that. Your statement is absurd.

I played varsity sports in high school. Wasn't good enough for college.

[m0nkey]

Were you not good enough or did you lack tWtW?

[ettin]

You are going to get the basic Saber argument that clutch is non existent and then protection is non existent and then finally RBIs are a false stat. Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

Not that I think Freese is Mr.Clutch aka Derek Jeter but for a career with RISP his slash line is .290/.374/.441/.815.

 

In comparison other Angels

 

Pujols  .334/.468/.632/.1.100

Trout  .316/.415/.535/.950

Hamilton .295/.369/.511/.880

Iannetta  .253/.401/.447/.848

Trumbo .252/.303/.478/.782

Kendrick  .285/.337/.408/.745

Callapso .270/.337/.397/.734

Shuck  .296/.301/.386/.697

Aybar  .270/.301/.386/.687

Bourjos   .219/.288/.343/.631

 

The Angels let go our oft injured CF that was least likely to drive in a run for Freese that is head and shoulders above Callaspo and out performs Trumbo and Kendrick. He is no Pujols or Trout but he is the best replacement RISP hitter for 3rd base the Angels have had since Glaus.

 

Well with all due respect Eric when you bat 9th in the order you don't have a lot of opportunities for RISP, so this is misleading.

[AngelsFaninGA]

Freese's average with RISP the last 2 years is .275 and .238, both below his season average for those two seasons. His career slash line is significantly buoyed by his .354 line with RISP in 2011, and it has gone down considerably since then. One season does not make you clutch. Saying Freese knows how to drive in the important runs is like saying GMJ knows how to make the important catches. In fact, this trade reeks of GMJ - trading for a guy with 1 (or in Freese's case, 2, defining plays, and an otherwise mediocre resume). 

[405z06]

Well with all due respect Eric when you bat 9th in the order you don't have a lot of opportunities for RISP, so this is misleading.

 

I'm torn because I think clutch is BS by and large, but in terms of this comment above, Eric Maddow-Micheal-Moore wasn't giving counting/cumulative stats, he was giving percentages. It MAY be misleading because of small-sample-size (not sure of sample) but that would apply to all listed, not just Pete.

Edited November 25, 2013 by 405z06

[full circle]

A Freese/Spiezio comparison seems appropriate.

I see what you did here...

[Docwaukee]

I never claimed that. You don't get paid millions of dollars as an athlete unless you can already handle that. Your statement is absurd.

I played varsity sports in high school. Wasn't good enough for college.

your statement is the one that is absurd. 

 

I actually agree with Trolldaddy (damn.  someone get me some purell )

 

The degree of importance escalates with the level being played at.  Getting a big hit in a minor league playoff game is much different than doing it in the majors.  You are inferring that every player has a similar response in every scenario when they walk to the plate.  These are human beings and they all react differently

 

Just because available metrics haven't found a good indicator for what makes a player clutch or whether that is reproducible doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

 

That said, for Jerry to make that statement is pretty hilarious unless the Halos have some sort of proprietary metric to prove clutchness.  Otherwise, he talking out of his butt. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

I see what you did here...

designated hitters who need designated drivers?

[mtangelsfan]

your statement is the one that is absurd. 

 

I actually agree with Trolldaddy (damn.  someone get me some purell )

 

The degree of importance escalates with the level being played at.  Getting a big hit in a minor league playoff game is much different than doing it in the majors.  You are inferring that every player has a similar response in every scenario when they walk to the plate.  These are human beings and they all react differently

 

Just because available metrics haven't found a good indicator for what makes a player clutch or whether that is reproducible doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

 

That said, for Jerry to make that statement is pretty hilarious unless the Halos have some sort of proprietary metric to prove clutchness.  Otherwise, he talking out of his butt. 

I'm not sure about that doc.  A high school player would only know the pressure of a high school game, no?  

[Docwaukee]

I'm not sure about that doc.  A high school player would only know the pressure of a high school game, no?  

that's what I am saying.  when they get to the next level, the pressure escalates as if it were a whole new circumstance.  Does a hitter feel the same at the plate in may as they would in a playoff game with two runners on down by 1? 

 

I can't imagine that there wouldn't be a different emotional response from these differing situations that could cause some fluctuation in a players performance. 

[mtangelsfan]

Maybe we are just coming at it from different angles.  I think we both agree that Dipoto's quote is an undefinable load of baloney.

[AngelsLakersFan]

that's what I am saying.  when they get to the next level, the pressure escalates as if it were a whole new circumstance.  Does a hitter feel the same at the plate in may as they would in a playoff game with two runners on down by 1? 

 

I can't imagine that there wouldn't be a different emotional response from these differing situations that could cause some fluctuation in a players performance. 

 

I'm not sure if the feeling of a big at bat in a CIF game is that different from the same at bat in the post season. You are still responsible to your teammates and their supporters and it is still the biggest at bat of your life up to that point. I don't know if your body makes the distinction.

 

Of course I've never had a post season at bat so I can't really speak on this...

[m0nkey]

A high school player playing in a CIF game is also a 14-17 year old kid.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

The Cardinals seem to make rational, passionless decisions about what a player will be going forward and the Angels make decisions about who players were before. You don’t have to look beyond the last two offseasons to see this pattern in action.

 

The Cardinals deal for the future. The Angels deal for the past. That is about as succinctly put as I have seen it, and it explains why St. Louis wins and we don't. This deal is just another step in the same direction for both clubs.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Vegas Halo Fan

[mp170.6]

I don't have so much of a problem with Freese as I do with the Angels' projections of almost every player they acquire via trade or free agency. 

 

Take whatever the Angels envision for said player and reduce it by 50% -- that's the player we usually get.  When Dipoto hints to Freese being a clutch hitter, you can pretty much expect him to be warming the bench come 2015. 

[Docwaukee]

Maybe we are just coming at it from different angles.  I think we both agree that Dipoto's quote is an undefinable load of baloney.

this is true.  it reminds me of the quote that he made about Saunders when he came to Az. 

 

I don't think JD really feels that way but he's trying to make it appeal to the common fan. 

 

we are not common fans.  I would imagine that there was a ton of hate mail and pub about how the halos couldn't hit with RISP.  he's addressing those people.

[Docwaukee]

I'm not sure if the feeling of a big at bat in a CIF game is that different from the same at bat in the post season. You are still responsible to your teammates and their supporters and it is still the biggest at bat of your life up to that point. I don't know if your body makes the distinction.

 

Of course I've never had a post season at bat so I can't really speak on this...

your body doesn't make a distinction, your mind does.  The CIF at bat is the biggest to that point because that's all you know.   A big situation in the college world series may feel similar yet even more intense.  The point is that important situation evoke different responses from different players.   Playing in a CIF final doesn't fully prepare you for a big situation in the MLB playoffs.  You can learn from previous experience, but the current one is still new and different. 

 

Are people really questioning whether players have different emotional responses to different game situations and whether that can affect performance? 

 

And speculating that because they are paid millions of dollars and been thru the minors that they should perform the same whether there is a pressure situation or not?  that a playoff game or late season important at bat doesn't evoke some sort of response that may slightly affect how they perform?

[Corona]

Just to clarify, this article is not by Peter Gammons.

Yeah this same author loves the Haren for 10 mil deal and the Cardinals signing Peralta, lol. 

[Blarg]

I'm torn because I think clutch is BS by and large, but in terms of this comment above, Eric Maddow-Micheal-Moore wasn't giving counting/cumulative stats, he was giving percentages. It MAY be misleading because of small-sample-size (not sure of sample) but that would apply to all listed, not just Pete.

 

Those were players cumulative stats for their careers not just a one year sample.

 

For Ettin: Bourjos numbers were from 190 games and 285 PA. That should be enough to call a sample size.

[YouthofToday]

"Are people really questioning whether players have different emotional responses to different game situations and whether that can affect performance? "

Impressive straw man argument.

Edited November 25, 2013 by YouthofToday