CBS article - Blame all but Moreno the most

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

If this was posted mod please delete. Checked the time it was posted at CBS and didn't see it posted as a thread by itself but maybe it was or is in another thread:

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/23287160/while-dipoto-or-scioscia-will-lose-angels-blame-game-owner-is-far-from-clean

Just reading it now myself and wanted to share. Says Moreno, Mike and Jerry deserve blame but Moreno deserves more than the other 2.

[stormngt]

After reading that story all I can say is WOW!

 

If true, Moreno does have a lot to blame.  AND clearly SOSH and Dipoto can't work together.  Swallowing 25 million would be hard and the article is right it would be wrong to fire a GM after only two years and a year after he was handcuff with only 17 million to sign two starters and two relievers.

 

In addition, Moreno vetoed (if true) a trade of Santana before 2012.  That trade would have definitely brought us some nice players instead we dump him for a reliever who needed TJ surgery.

 

In addition he vetoed the trade of Bobby Abreu in 2012?  WTF was ARTE thinking??????

 

Of course, that is if the sources are accurate that have been used in the story.  (sorry folks but experience has taught me not to trust everything reported in the press).

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

Definitely question the sources just like with anything in the press. I found it interesting because it discusses things some people here have mentioned more and more regarding the decisions made the last 2-3 years that others have dismissed or asked for sources on. I don't expect it to change minds and as fans we will never know with 100% certainty but its interesting none the less after seeing the discussions about it over the years on here.

[Ohtaniland]

If this was posted mod please delete. Checked the time it was posted at CBS and didn't see it posted as a thread by itself but maybe it was or is in another thread:

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/23287160/while-dipoto-or-scioscia-will-lose-angels-blame-game-owner-is-far-from-clean

Just reading it now myself and wanted to share. Says Moreno, Mike and Jerry deserve blame but Moreno deserves more than the other 2.

 

Yes this link was posted on page 3 by mp170.6 in the "Torii was gonna kick Albert's ass thread."

[mp170.6]

Yes this link was posted on page 3 by mp170.6 in the "Torii was gonna kick Albert's ass thread."

 

No worries.  This article deserves a thread of its own. 

[mp170.6]

I thought Moreno's primary residence was in the Phoenix area.  For him to exert this kind of control and manipulation over every little detail must be miserable for the staff if he's doing it remotely.  Then again, he seems to be at the stadium pretty frequently. 

 

Can somebody clear this up?  How often is Moreno actually present in the front office? 

[tennischmp]

Arte is making a call to the BP as we speak

[SoWhat]

Another stupid move was not letting DiPoto deal Santana while his value was high after the 2011 season, Instead he stunk it up in 2012 and netted us Brandon Sisk

[VariousCrap]

After reading this and the other article, it is obvious to me that it doesn't matter if Sosh is manager and Dipoto is the GM, as long as Arte keeps getting himself involved in baseball decisions, this team will continue to fail.

 

Arte is a brilliant businessman, but he doesn't know crap about baseball.  He needs to leave the baseball decisions to his GM and stop getting involved.  He is hurting the team.

[bloodbrother]

Somebody tell Arte he is paying guys to make the baseball decisions. Let them make the decisions

[bloodbrother]

After reading this and the other article, it is obvious to me that it doesn't matter if Sosh is manager and Dipoto is the GM, as long as Arte keeps getting himself involved in baseball decisions, this team will continue to fail.

 

Arte is a brilliant businessman, but he doesn't know crap about baseball.  He needs to leave the baseball decisions to his GM and stop getting involved.  He is hurting the team.

 

After reading this and the other article, it is obvious to me that it doesn't matter if Sosh is manager and Dipoto is the GM, as long as Arte keeps getting himself involved in baseball decisions, this team will continue to fail.

 

Arte is a brilliant businessman, but he doesn't know crap about baseball.  He needs to leave the baseball decisions to his GM and stop getting involved.  He is hurting the team.

 

 

Yep. Raiders had to endure Al Davis making calls for years and the Cowboys are dealing with Jerry Jones meddling into things. Really discouraging to read these things about Arte

[ten ocho recon scout]

I agree with the article, that arte is the one to blame for pulling the trigger on the hamilton/pujols deals.

That said, it is his money at the end of the day....meaning, if he doesn't view it as 'I'm broke' (which he might), then its not the end of us.

I don't think arte is going to shy away from signing people in the future. As bleak as we are on the field, the reality is were still good financially. If anything, I see 'angry arte' looking at the dodgers and thinking....

Obviously that's not a good thing. But, at the same time, if we can pluck a few international signings and start rebuilding the farm, we can bounce back.

[VariousCrap]

Somebody tell Arte he is paying guys to make the baseball decisions. Let them make the decisions

 

 

Exactly. 

[VariousCrap]

I agree with the article, that arte is the one to blame for pulling the trigger on the hamilton/pujols deals.

That said, it is his money at the end of the day....meaning, if he doesn't view it as 'I'm broke' (which he might), then its not the end of us.

I don't think arte is going to shy away from signing people in the future. As bleak as we are on the field, the reality is were still good financially. If anything, I see 'angry arte' looking at the dodgers and thinking....

 

 

 

I understand your point of view, but if he keeps interferring because he wants all the big names or whatever, he is going to doom this team.  The Angels don't need to just make moves, they need to make smart moves.  The moves Arte has been behind demonstrate he doesn't make smart moves, he makes dumb ones.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Yeah, that's a very fair point. I think it more comes down to trades though. IE (not bruin), if he was behind the wells deal...he does need to stay out. But in terms of signing fa's (yes we lose a pick, but not offering fair deals to guys that leave has hurt us more), if arte is willing to eat the money, I don't think it will be as huge of a problem as it looks right now.

And something inside me (grain of salt) says pujols doesn't have 8 years left in him. Wouldnt be suprised if he leaves in a few years and we lose that contract.

[AngelsAndRamsFan]

And something inside me (grain of salt) says pujols doesn't have 8 years left in him. Wouldnt be suprised if he leaves in a few years and we lose that contract.

Pujols might be out of baseball in 4-5 years, but he's not going to quit/retire. He's not going to give up any money.  

[tennischmp]

I agree with the article, that arte is the one to blame for pulling the trigger on the hamilton/pujols deals.

That said, it is his money at the end of the day....meaning, if he doesn't view it as 'I'm broke' (which he might), then its not the end of us.

Right but when he leaves only 17 mil to spend on SP and BP after signing Hamilton, well that's not good

[VariousCrap]

It just concerns me that Dipoto wanted to resign Greinke (the right decision) and Arte said no because he wanted in on the Hamilton sweepstakes.

 

In my opinion, this past offseason should have focused on Greinke (plan 1) and Annibal Sanchez (plan 2).  Dipoto knew pitching was needed.  Sosh has always been a big pitching guy.

 

Arte should stay out of it and not try to focus on the big names.  This is especially true the year after giving Pujols that huge contract.

[Ohtaniland]

Pujols might be out of baseball in 4-5 years, but he's not going to quit/retire. He's not going to give up any money.  

 

Arte should start Albert's 10 year service portion of his contract now and hope that he doesn't want to finish his final 8 years when he returns to the field at age 44.

[Caralho]

JB Shuck is what Scioscia loves? So a poor base stealer and a below average defender, what a surprise. Maybe Moreno should meddle and take away Scioscia's toy.

[Mark68]

This is certainly how I've been feeling, especially about the Pujols & Hamilton deals. We all know that franchises with owners who meddle in player personnel decisions have not historically done well (the Yankees under George Steinbrenner are the exception to the rule...although even they had a 13-season postseason drought under his tenure).

[austin724]

What concerns me is how fans of this team were all excited about the additions of Pujols and Hamilton and glad we had an owner such as Moreno to spend the money.  Now everyone hates Moreno because he meddles too much in the team.  Fans and media will never be happy one way or the other.

[VariousCrap]

What concerns me is how fans of this team were all excited about the additions of Pujols and Hamilton and glad we had an owner such as Moreno to spend the money.  Now everyone hates Moreno because he meddles too much in the team.  Fans and media will never be happy one way or the other.

 

 

 

That is true in regards to Pujols, but most people on this board were not thrilled with the Hamilton signing.

[Angelsjunky]

A worrisome article. If Arte really is the source of most of these bad moves there's not much that can be done and this franchise could be in serious trouble long-term. I suppose the best we can hope for is that he learns his lesson and leaves baseball decisions to baseball people, but as the saying goes you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

[Angelsjunky]

What concerns me is how fans of this team were all excited about the additions of Pujols and Hamilton and glad we had an owner such as Moreno to spend the money.  Now everyone hates Moreno because he meddles too much in the team.  Fans and media will never be happy one way or the other.

 

Fans and media will be happy if and when the team shows consistency in making good decisions. Over the last three years, the Angels have been an absolutely disaster in that regard.

 

EDIT: Meant to write "decisions" rather than "seasons" - I'm tired - so I changed it.