Thanks Dipoto

[T.G.]

Angel fans have every right to vent right now.  I'm mad as can be, myself.  People have to be held accountable for the decisions they made.  Joe Blanton was a horrible decision.  Sean Burnett was a questionable one.  If you look at how Burnett ended last year - he had elbow problems and didn't pitch the last month of the season and then had "minor" surgery on his elbow afterwards.  More than half of the current 40 man roster are players that Dipoto brought in - many of them are waiver wire claims. trades or free agent signings.  The most productive players on the roster were not brought in by Dipoto with the exception of CJ Wilson - and he's mediocre at best. The Angels went into last off season with holes in the pitching rotation and bullpen - and those holes didn't get filled properly.  This season is on Dipoto, first and foremost in my mind.

 

The best thing the Angels can do right now is extend Mike Trout and lock him up for several years.  That's the only ray of sunshine we can hope for in this current season.  This has to get done.

[Lifetime]

I keep seeing this "must be held accountable for the decisions they made" mantra. What does that mean exactly? 

[kevinb]

I keep seeing this "must be held accountable for the decisions they made" mantra. What does that mean exactly? 

It means when you screw up and a team doesn't get in better in Mikes case 4 years and in Dipoto's case 2 years you should probably not be here anymore. Fired. Will send link if you need verification of team getting worse.

[ettin]

I don't realize that.  Contending teams looking to fill voids mid season are more likely to give in.  Maybe Dipoto is the only one who does that, though.

 

Vladdy, how many deadline trades would you consider steals for either team? The only one that might have been close to a steal was the Red Sox ACQUIRING Peavy for less than they should have paid. The other handful of transactions were equitable trades. I didn't see any teams "give in" at this deadline?

 

First there are August waivers and Chuck is correct that as more teams realize they are going to make the playoffs or miss them you will likely see some additional trades.

 

Secondly in the offseason there will likely be more teams showing interest in players as they look to rebuild, retool, or add a piece for 2014.

 

I understand that there are a few specific teams that might have a specific need to fill at the deadline and there is a possibility they will overpay but having 6-10 teams interested in the offseason vs. 1-3 teams at the deadline not only makes the price potentially go up it also allows us to find a team that has the right prospects/players we want in return.

 

In the end I think Dipoto didn't get the right return offer for Kendrick or Aybar and he decided to wait until August waivers or the offseason to get the right return.

[ettin]

You don't know that. Green might be another bust while Callaspo is a solid utility guy. The A's are happy to get him and I'm sure he's happy to get out.

 

True he doesn't know how this trade will pan out yet but that is the point that some people here are trying to make about Dipoto: How can you criticize these trade (or lack of trade) moves when it takes 1-3 seasons to really see how the transactions pan out?

 

Grant Green may be great and he may suck. But, since he is a prospect, we won't know his true potential for probably 2-4 seasons? Most prospects come up to the Majors and do poorly in their first 1-3 years.

 

Point is that DIpoto as a GM cannot turn this ship around in one or two seasons. If by 2015 we aren't beginning to see improvements then I think you have to seriously start questioning his leadership at the helm.

[kevinb]

True he doesn't know how this trade will pan out yet but that is the point that some people here are trying to make about Dipoto: How can you criticize these trade (or lack of trade) moves when it takes 1-3 seasons to really see how the transactions pan out?

 

Grant Green may be great and he may suck. But, since he is a prospect, we won't know his true potential for probably 2-4 seasons? Most prospects come up to the Majors and do poorly in their first 1-3 years.

 

Point is that DIpoto as a GM cannot turn this ship around in one or two seasons. If by 2015 we aren't beginning to see improvements then I think you have to seriously start questioning his leadership at the helm.

Damn we have to wait another two years to see if he is doing a good job. Francona took over this year and Cleveland is better, Boston is better after a disastrous year last year with a new manager and new GM from a year ago. 

[yk9001]

My wildest dream is that dipoto puts Pujols throw waivers... and someone claims him.

[ettin]

Damn we have to wait another two years to see if he is doing a good job. Francona took over this year and Cleveland is better, Boston is better after a disastrous year last year with a new manager and new GM from a year ago. 

 

Your counter point is regarding new managers moreso than a new GM. In that aspect we have seen two years in a row of underachievement and it has even a staunch S-C-I-O-S-C-I-A supporter like myself questioning if he is the right voice to lead that clubhouse anymore. I think at his core he is a good manager but he has made some not so good calls over the last two years and sometimes you just need a fresh look and feel with your clubhouse leaders. Maybe it's time? I don't know the answer and I'm not in the organization to understand the dynamics and relationships to have any really educated opinion on it.

[kevinb]

Your counter point is regarding new managers moreso than a new GM. In that aspect we have seen two years in a row of underachievement and it has even a staunch S-C-I-O-S-C-I-A supporter like myself questioning if he is the right voice to lead that clubhouse anymore. I think at his core he is a good manager but he has made some not so good calls over the last two years and sometimes you just need a fresh look and feel with your clubhouse leaders. Maybe it's time? I don't know the answer and I'm not in the organization to understand the dynamics and relationships to have any really educated opinion on it.

I like Mike. I don't like a lot of his decisions he has made. But I think a GM has a much bigger influence on a team than the manager does. When we had a good team with good players we had a good record. Now that we have no team , no pitching and our defense is crap we have a worse team. Like someone else has said in a previous thread something like 20 out of the 40 people on our team were hand picked by Dipoto and it has gotten worse. I don't know it honestly seems like we are going down the wrong path with no direction and I would like to see changes made to get us back on track.

[DropOfAnaheim]

This team needs direction, this team needs energy, and this team does not need to keep turning the page and tipping the cap. It's time for Soso to ride off into the sunset over to to the NL.

[mtangelsfan]

No manager could have succeeded with the crappy roster this team has.  That is on teflon jerry.

 

I don't care if Sosh is here or not, it won't change who is on the roster.

[Angel Oracle]

You can still make trades in August and the offseason. This season is LOST already. Just chill.

 

In fact, you have a better chance of making deals now in the waiver period (in August) than ever due to the collective bargaining agreement. 

What has changed?    Does a player no longer have to go through total waivers in August before being traded?

[Angel Oracle]

Regarding Green's 0-15 debut in MLB earlier this season, even a great like Willie Mays was just 1-24 to start his MLB career in 1951 and then went into Leo Durocher's office to express doubt about being a good MLB player.

[SoWhat]

Lmao This thread has me dying. This board at the moment has to be the most entertaining since I've been here for the past 3 years

[ettin]

What has changed?    Does a player no longer have to go through total waivers in August before being traded?

 

It's not the waiver period that has changed but the addition of the 2nd Wild Card spot through the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

 

The reason you didn't see as many trades at the deadline was because there are still some teams that believe they have a shot of getting into the playoffs even though they are 5+ games out of catching the leaders in their division.

 

A 2nd Wild Card spot increases the odds that any team out on the fringe might be able to improve their team and sneak into the playoffs.

 

Having the trade deadline at the end of July leaves almost two full months of the regular season and some teams are not ready to throw in the towel that early.

 

There have been recent suggestions that the trade deadline get pushed back further into mid-August so that there is better clarity on which teams are really sellers and which ones are really buyers.

 

The later the deadline the more likely you will see more trades as out-of-contention teams sell off their spare parts.

 

This is what Chuck means by a better chance to make deals because more teams will soon realize they are either all-in or out of the race. That's when you are more likely to see more deals done. The only counterpoint to this is that some teams can make waiver claims on specific players to block another team from being able to claim that player and connsumate a transaction.

[Jobu]

Blanton - I dont think a good GM makes a signing like Blanton or trades Santana for a nothing reliever.  Santana had a pretty good last 2 months, he could have used that as leverage in a trade but it looked like he just threw Santana away for nothing.

 

Madson/Burnett - The closer/reliever issue was here before he even came to the angels and even though he is well aware of it, he still hasnt fixed the problem. Depending on guys with a history of injuries is what a bad GM does.

 

Bourjos - a good GM has a backup plan and im not talking about shuck or cowgill.

 

Hamilton - I dont know about Hamilton, is he sucking because he doesnt play in Arlington for 81 games?  Was he on steroids?  I think you have to avoid huge risks like Hamilton, especially for 125m but that might be arte's doing.

 

Pujols - More bad luck, who could have predicted a guy with foot injuries would continue to have foot injuries as he got older?  

 

Scioscia-  he is a huge problem, his in game moves have been unbelievably dumb, and Im sure dipoto knows it.  There is little dipoto can do because of scioscia's contract and it seems like the media loves scioscia and thinks hes a great manager for some odd reason.  It's very hard to be a GM and disagree with a guy's managerial style who is well liked by the media and has a 10 year contract.

 

Most of these issues would be helped if he did some really good things as GM, but he really hasnt done anything that has worked out for this organization...at all

 

People seem to forget that we headed into the offseason with what looked like budget constraints (Hamilton changed that obviously, but that was certainly the tone at the time). Santana wasn't traded JUST because he had a bad year, it was because he was making a lot of money for being mediocre. There was also a option deadline, which reduced the Angels' leverage in any trade. If they hadn't made a trade they LITERALLY would have given him away for nothing.

 

Only fans seem to think Madson was to be relied on. It was a relatively low risk contract that might have paid off big. It didn't ... what do you want to do? Cut off his arm and run around the concourse banging a drum with it? The market was thin, and we had to take a chance on some guys with injury histories.

 

Bourjos - So Jerry should have just pulled a stocked farm system out of thin air? What backup plan can you think of that doesn't involve good prospects to either play or trade?

 

Pujols - Yeah, who could have predicted that a guy with foot injuries that at no point prevented him from being one of the greatest hitters of his generation would suddenly have such a severe case that it would leave him a shell of his former self? No seriously, who?

[DropOfAnaheim]

No manager could have succeeded with the crappy roster this team has.  That is on teflon jerry.

 

I don't care if Sosh is here or not, it won't change who is on the roster.

I know many managers who would have pinch ran Morales for Bourjos last year in a key season changing game against the Rangers. Squeeze play in 08 with Aybar on the left side of the plate? Squeeze play at all? Sending Weaver down for his horrible older brother after the unbelievable undefeated start? We lose the division in 06.  Pulling Lackey in the 09 ALCS? The game was basically lost because of him, except for some late inning heroics.

 

The man needs to go.

[ettin]

Regarding Green's 0-15 debut in MLB earlier this season, even a great like Willie Mays was just 1-24 to start his MLB career in 1951 and then went into Leo Durocher's office to express doubt about being a good MLB player.

 

This is what I mean by letting Dipoto's strategic moves and acquisitions take their time to play out. Green may not do well in his first couple of seasons in the Majors, a lot of prospects don't just come in and produce right out of the gate, it takes time.

 

I'll admit the Blanton signing did NOT pan out for us this year. Overall he just didn't pitch well during the season. However, I don't think Dipoto was completely insane with this decision either: In a 7-game period from late May until the end of June Joe had a 3.42 ERA with 46 strikeouts over 47 innings (nearly a 9.0 K/9 ratio)?

 

Although he was abyssmal in many of his other games there was a stretch where Blanton actually pitched pretty well. I think this was what Jerry had hoped for out of Blanton when he made the decision to sign him. I guess what I am trying to say is that Dipoto's decision making wasn't as completely flawed as it appears because if Blanton was truly so awful, why did he have a month and a half of brilliance? It was just one of those signings, along with Hamilton's, that took a really bad turn.

[mtangelsfan]

I know many managers who would have pinch ran Morales for Bourjos last year in a key season changing game against the Rangers. Squeeze play in 08 with Aybar on the left side of the plate? Squeeze play at all? Sending Weaver down for his horrible older brother after the unbelievable undefeated start? We lose the division in 06.  Pulling Lackey in the 09 ALCS? The game was basically lost because of him, except for some late inning heroics.

 

The man needs to go.

 

Hindsight is awesome.  You picked around five examples in thirteen years.  I think those are pretty good numbers.  Look, I already said I don't care if they keep Sosh or not, but nobody could have made this current roster a winner.

[Mark68]

This loser franchise loses on 3 straight walk offs.

What a bunch of losers!

I don't think there is enough loser in this post.

[Mark68]

It's not the waiver period that has changed but the addition of the 2nd Wild Card spot through the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

 

The reason you didn't see as many trades at the deadline was because there are still some teams that believe they have a shot of getting into the playoffs even though they are 5+ games out of catching the leaders in their division.

 

A 2nd Wild Card spot increases the odds that any team out on the fringe might be able to improve their team and sneak into the playoffs.

 

Having the trade deadline at the end of July leaves almost two full months of the regular season and some teams are not ready to throw in the towel that early.

 

There have been recent suggestions that the trade deadline get pushed back further into mid-August so that there is better clarity on which teams are really sellers and which ones are really buyers.

 

The later the deadline the more likely you will see more trades as out-of-contention teams sell off their spare parts.

 

This is what Chuck means by a better chance to make deals because more teams will soon realize they are either all-in or out of the race. That's when you are more likely to see more deals done. The only counterpoint to this is that some teams can make waiver claims on specific players to block another team from being able to claim that player and connsumate a transaction.

I believe this has been suggested during GM meetings. It should gain traction as we continue with the 2 WC format in the future. It might be too early to justify pushing the non-waiver deadline back, but in a couple of years, I would not be surprised to see this happen.

 

Even August 15 would probably allow more teams to judge where they are in relation to a wild card spot than July 31.

[vlad27]

Jerry's worst move by far was signing Blanton - second worst move was letting Torii go - other than that things have just turned out poorly on all fronts - couldn't have predicted that

[T.G.]

Things wouldn't be so bad if I didn't care so much.  I have to remind myself that this is just a game, but when you invest time, money and emotion into something like a baseball team, it's hard to not care.

[Inside Pitch]

Things wouldn't be so bad if I didn't care so much.  I have to remind myself that this is just a game, but when you invest time, money and emotion into something like a baseball team, it's hard to not care.

 

Can't spell fanatic without fan.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Boston is better after a disastrous year last year with a new manager and new GM from a year ago. 

 

Boston's problem in 2012 wasn't talent. It was a toxic manager who every player hated playing for.