The Angels Missing Situational Hitting Strategy

[VladimirTrout27]

I did a data project for fun from the beginning of the season through August 17th. Finding a baseline and helpful data took quite a bit of time. I didn't want to vomit too much data, but figured to share some data snapshots, such as specific counts being met and what follows. I hope this helps a little.

“We want our guys to be aggressive — aggressive in the zone,” said Angels hitting coach Marcus Thames. “Pitchers are trying to get ahead. So I want our guys’ mindset to be ready to go attack. If the ball’s in your zone, be ready to go.” - The Athletic

Looking at RISP, advanced data shows when the Angels have counts 0-1 & 0-2, and they're top in strikeouts and lowest in average. They're in the middle of the pack when they make contact in 0-2 counts. They’re close to average in 1-1 and 2-1 counts. Swinging early has put them in holes, causing them to slip further.

The Angels lead the league in 1^st pitch swing percentage, tied for the highest whiff percentage and worst zone contact in MLB. [Provided by Baseball Savant]

For example, in 0-2 counts, the Angels’ batting avg is 30^th (.136) and MLB avg is .177, OPS: 25^th (MLB avg is .478) Angels are .414. Batted balls in play, the Angels are 29^th, and most of the top offensive teams are in the top half. They’re 4^th in strikeout rate. When they make contact in 0-2 counts, they’re about average. Surprisingly, they're  2nd in walk % from 0-2 counts. [Found in Fangraphs].

I interpreted it as Angel hitters getting behind early, not making contact in the zone, and with each strike, they are one of the worst teams in the league, making contact as the count has additional strikes and whiffing often. They have too many guys who can’t make contact, miss too much in the zone, and can't adequately work counts. While they can get walks, they fail to put the ball in play and make decent contact. Aggression has made counts tougher to handle, as they’re too challenged as hitters. This could add to why they slump when they get so cold due to a lack of making contact. Maybe scouting is off, but it starts with preparation and putting hitters in better opportunities to succeed.

[Swordsman78]

The Angels need a couple more "contact guys" in the line up.   Assuming everyone is healthy let Trout, Ohtani and Moose swing from the heels.  Everyone else should be a line drive/hit the other way contact guy that can homer every once in a while liket Neto and Rengifo.

[Chuck]

7 hours ago, VladimirTrout27 said:

I did a data project for fun from the beginning of the season through August 17th. Finding a baseline and helpful data took quite a bit of time. I didn't want to vomit too much data, but figured to share some data snapshots, such as specific counts being met and what follows. I hope this helps a little.

“We want our guys to be aggressive — aggressive in the zone,” said Angels hitting coach Marcus Thames. “Pitchers are trying to get ahead. So I want our guys’ mindset to be ready to go attack. If the ball’s in your zone, be ready to go.” - The Athletic

Looking at RISP, advanced data shows when the Angels have counts 0-1 & 0-2, and they're top in strikeouts and lowest in average. They're in the middle of the pack when they make contact in 0-2 counts. They’re close to average in 1-1 and 2-1 counts. Swinging early has put them in holes, causing them to slip further.

The Angels lead the league in 1^st pitch swing percentage, tied for the highest whiff percentage and worst zone contact in MLB. [Provided by Baseball Savant]

For example, in 0-2 counts, the Angels’ batting avg is 30^th (.136) and MLB avg is .177, OPS: 25^th (MLB avg is .478) Angels are .414. Batted balls in play, the Angels are 29^th, and most of the top offensive teams are in the top half. They’re 4^th in strikeout rate. When they make contact in 0-2 counts, they’re about average. Surprisingly, they're  2nd in walk % from 0-2 counts. [Found in Fangraphs].

I interpreted it as Angel hitters getting behind early, not making contact in the zone, and with each strike, they are one of the worst teams in the league, making contact as the count has additional strikes and whiffing often. They have too many guys who can’t make contact, miss too much in the zone, and can't adequately work counts. While they can get walks, they fail to put the ball in play and make decent contact. Aggression has made counts tougher to handle, as they’re too challenged as hitters. This could add to why they slump when they get so cold due to a lack of making contact. Maybe scouting is off, but it starts with preparation and putting hitters in better opportunities to succeed.

Good post @VladimirTrout27!!

[DCAngelsFan]

Quote

They have too many guys who can’t make contact, miss too much in the zone, and can't adequately work counts.

Sad part about this is the same thing could've been said about this team almost every year since 2015.  

Funny thing about this is I used to blame Bane for the Angels being like this 10+ years ago, recalling his infamous line (paraphrasing) "I came here to see a hitter - a player takes a walk, I'm walking to my car"

But for some set of reasons, this team haven't been able to field a team for 162 that can "hit" - other than home runs.

Our OBP/wOBA/RS stats are average, at best, for most seasons.  It's injuries, lack of depth, too-young or 2nd tier players taking too many AB's.  

Is it all just bad luck?  Or something else?

 

[gurn67]

It's nice to know that I wasn't imagining that this team had the worst 2 strike approach at the plate that I have ever seen. Swing from the heels and hope for the best. Productive outs? What are those? Those don't show up in your stats. That's the way it's been for the last 8 years.

[TroutField]

It’s sad that some random poster can do the research in the flaws of the Angels and their approach, yet who knows if the angels are aware, and if they are aware, clearly aren’t able to fix or coach it down to the players. 
 

Meanwhile the Dodgers can turn every struggling player they acquire around into a productive player because whatever data they are receiving , they have the coaches that know how to put it to use. 

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, TroutField said:

It’s sad that some random poster can do the research in the flaws of the Angels and their approach, yet who knows if the angels are aware, and if they are aware, clearly aren’t able to fix or coach it down to the players. 
 

Meanwhile the Dodgers can turn every struggling player they acquire around into a productive player because whatever data they are receiving , they have the coaches that know how to put it to use. 

Syndergaard, Peralta, Rosario, and Rojas all disagree this year. 

[arch stanton]

"If the ball's in your zone be ready to go"

This seems to be where the disconnect comes

[Blarg]

36 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

"If the ball's in your zone be ready to go"

This seems to be where the disconnect comes

Evidently guys like Moniak have a zone that's pretty damn large including ankles to nose. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

39 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

"If the ball's in your zone be ready to go"

 

When you're sliding into First and you feel a funny burst...

[JVel17]

22 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Evidently guys like Moniak have a zone that's pretty damn large including ankles to nose. 

Grichuck also recently struck out swinging on all pitches outside the strike zone.  The pitcher didn't throw one pitch in the strike zone the whole at bat.

[Slegnaac]

Nobody walks off of the island.

[PattyD22]

53 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Evidently guys like Moniak have a zone that's pretty damn large including ankles to nose. 

Moniak also has a penchant for swinging at pitches that only travel 57 feet, so there’s that also.

[tdawg87]

Guys like Renfroe go up there and try to hit the ball 450 feet, regardless of the situation. We aren't moving runners over, we aren't playing small ball. It's just grip it and rip it. 

Missing guys like Trout and.....Rendon....definitely doesn't help. But the situational hitting is just fucking bad.

[gurn67]

1 hour ago, PattyD22 said:

Moniak also has a penchant for swinging at pitches that only travel 57 feet, so there’s that also.

If your name is not Vladimir, and you are not in the Hall of Fame, you shouldn't be swinging at those pitches.

[PattyD22]

Just now, gurn67 said:

If your name is not Vladimir, and you are not in the Hall of Fame, you shouldn't be swinging at those pitches.

I think it’s fair to say no one should be swinging at those pitches, Vladdy included.

[Angel Oracle]

Does Moniak even recognize a slider?

Maybe his eyesight needs to be fixed like Schanuel’s was?

Edited August 28, 2023 by Angel Oracle

[gurn67]

2 hours ago, PattyD22 said:

I think it’s fair to say no one should be swinging at those pitches, Vladdy included.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoAdY3uP9c0

[Angel Oracle]

2 minutes ago, gurn67 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoAdY3uP9c0

Cue to Jim Healy:

“I tell ya. He would have made an F’ing great cricket player.   Hitting the ball on one F’ing bounce!”

[PattyD22]

28 minutes ago, gurn67 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoAdY3uP9c0

Yep.  I remember him doing that a couple times.  Amazing hand/eye coordination combined with a little luck.

Edited August 28, 2023 by PattyD22

[BTH]

I remember hearing/reading that the hitting coaches wanted Drury to be aggressive early in counts, but I looked up the data and he does worse early in counts.

So the hitting coaches’ philosophy is broke, and they ain’t fixing it.

[gurn67]

4 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Cue to Jim Healy:

“I tell ya. He would have made an F’ing great cricket player.   Hitting the ball on one F’ing bounce!”

Whatever you do, don't ask Lasorda his opinion about Kingman's performance.

[AngelsFanSince86]

20 hours ago, VladimirTrout27 said:

“We want our guys to be aggressive — aggressive in the zone,” said Angels hitting coach Marcus Thames. “Pitchers are trying to get ahead. So I want our guys’ mindset to be ready to go attack. If the ball’s in your zone, be ready to go.” - The Athletic

This is literally the opposite of what successful teams like the Astros and Rays preach. They want guys with discipline. They want guys who will make the pitcher throw more pitches. I've watched the Astros essentially waste the ABs of the first 2 batters just so they can work the count and the team can see what they are up against that day. On the other hand, the Angels will be aggressive and be out of an inning in 5-10 pitches and never forcing the pitcher to use many of his secondary pitches which means that the rest of the team doesn't get to see those pitches.

Blows my mind that as a hitting coach you can literally look around the league at the most successful offenses and see that they stress plate discipline and then turn around and tell your guys to do the opposite. 

 

[greginpsca]

11 hours ago, arch stanton said:

"If the ball's in your zone be ready to go"

This seems to be where the disconnect comes

They make so little contact, they don't know where their zone is.

[Angel Oracle]

Strategy = see pitch and swing out of your heels at the pitch, unless it’s right down the middle.