OC Register: Why have so many Angels pitchers struggled this season?

[AngelsWin.com]

ANAHEIM — In the wake of Reid Detmers’ brilliant performance on Wednesday night, Angels manager Phil Nevin said it marked a watershed moment for the 24-year-old left-hander.

“He turned into a pitcher tonight,” Nevin said, referring to the fact that Detmers didn’t have his best stuff and accumulated only five strikeouts while carrying a no-hitter into the eighth inning.

Detmers agreed.

“I wasn’t really going out there for strikeouts or anything,” he said. “I was just trying to get deep into the game. That was the whole mindset. It was more about sequencing and just keeping them off-balance.”

It was exactly what Angels starters have been unable to do for most of this disappointing season.

Even though all of the key pitchers returned from a team that ranked ninth in the majors in ERA in 2022, the Angels have crashed to 21st this season.

The knee-jerk explanation that many fans have found most convenient is that pitching coach Matt Wise is the problem.

Wise was not available for comment because of a club policy limiting the subjects their coaches can address with the media. A handful of members of the organization, from those above Wise to the pitchers below him, all staunchly defended the third-year pitching coach, even when offered anonymity.

“He’s been awesome,” Detmers said. “I couldn’t have asked for anyone better.”

Nevin pointed out that Wise was the pitching coach when the Angels’ ERA improved from 22nd two years ago to ninth last year.

“I love the rapport he has with the pitchers, the way they respond to him,” Nevin said. “There are some guys that have taken some steps forward. I understand some guys have taken some steps back, but I don’t put that on Matt. Yes, coaching is a lot of it, but at this level, you gotta be a man and figure some things out on your own to be a professional.”

Obviously, each pitcher is ultimately responsible for his own performance. Given that so many Angels pitchers have regressed, it strains credulity to believe it’s a coincidence.

When pitchers and staff members were asked privately for their honest opinions, they had some theories about the reasons for the team-wide pitching failure.

Most of them agreed on one count.

There has been an organizational philosophy – one that comes “from the top,” not from Wise, a player insisted – to concentrate more on spin, velocity and movement instead of command and working through game situations.

Essentially, the focus was the opposite of what Detmers did on Wednesday night.

The shift is personified by a switch in the staff member who is No. 2, behind Wise, in running the pitching staff. Dom Chiti, who began his coaching career in the 1980s, was replaced as the bullpen coach by Bill Hezel, who came from Driveline to take his first job in professional baseball. Hezel’s specialty is helping pitchers improve their velocity, pitch shapes, spin and mechanics.

Left-hander Patrick Sandoval said the Angels definitely went too far in emphasizing raw stuff early in the season, but it became more balanced with the other elements of pitching about a month into the season.

“We’ve structured the pitching here in a way to emphasize both, I think in a good way,” he said. “It’s just a matter of us going out there and executing in games, and that’s where we fall short, for sure.”

One of the reasons the Angels were emphasizing pitch shapes, the pitchers said, is that the team was looking for more strikeouts. This year’s shift ban, plus the Angels’ overall weaker defensive infield, prompted the team to try to avoid contact.

The problem with that approach, the pitchers said, is it means too many deep counts, and too many breaking balls. The Angels rank 29th in the majors in fastball percentage.

Although the Angels were successful last year while also ranking 29th in fastballs, one pitcher suggested that perhaps this year the game plans have gotten too predictable for opposing hitters.

Each day the pitching plan is the product of the work of five to 10 people, including the pitcher, one or two catchers, Wise, Hezel and a number of analysts.

The result of that plan, some pitchers suggested, is too often inflexible, not allowing for the myriad ways that situations can change during a game. A handful of Angels pitchers are not allowed to shake off the catcher, the pitchers said.

The catchers calling those pitches are also a part of that equation, and the difference in experience behind the plate has been dramatic this season.

Chad Wallach has started 112 games at catcher over parts of seven major league seasons. Matt Thaiss, who played other positions for most of his minor league career, has started 73 major league games at catcher. This season Thaiss has started 62 games, and Wallach has started 44.

Last year the Angels’ catching duo of Max Stassi and Kurt Suzuki combined for 1,783 major league starts behind the plate over 26 seasons. Suzuki retired and Stassi has missed the entire season because of a hip injury and a family emergency.

“That’s a lot of years catching experience,” Sandoval said. “To be able to pick their brains day in and day out is something I really miss.”

General Manager Perry Minasian acknowledged the impact of losing Stassi and Suzuki, although he said he’s been pleased with Wallach and Thaiss.

“It’s tough to replace guys like Stassi and Suzuki, especially when you’re trying to develop young pitching,” Minasian said.

Minasian, however, said he was unaware of the other organizational issues that pitchers cited.

He said when the season is over they will “evaluate everything and do a full autopsy on everything. Every year you try to learn from different things and make improvements.”

Minasian said he believes that each individual pitcher who has struggled has his own reasons, most notably youth.

“It takes time for pitchers to settle into the major leagues and be consistent and start rolling off quality years, year in and year out,” Minasian said. “We knew that risk heading into the season with a young group. There are going to be ups and downs. It’s a young, talented group that I feel like is going to continue to get better the more experience they get.”

UP NEXT

Rays (TBD) at Angels (LHP Tyler Anderson, 5-4, 5.28 ERA), Friday, 6:38 p.m., Bally Sports West, 830 AM

Angels pitching coach Matt Wise, left, catcher Chad Wallach, center, and starting pitcher Tyler Anderson head to the dugout before a game against the Chicago White Sox on May 30 in Chicago. Angels pitchers say Wise is not to blame for their struggles this season. (AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast)

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View the full article

[Tyler]

Because we have the worst coaching and analytics program in the league. 

[Chuck]

This is very informative @Jeff Fletcher. I'll comment more later. 

[Swordsman78]

Once again it appears the analytics guys are f-ing everything up.

 

[BTH]

Thank you @Jeff Fletcher

I was one of the people blaming Wise, and while I’m still not sure he’s the solution, this article makes it clear that he’s not the only problem.

My biggest takeaway is that the front office and staff/pitchers aren’t on the same page.

This article is a rough look for Perry.

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, Trendon said:

Thank you @Jeff Fletcher

I was one of the people blaming Wise, and while I’m still not sure he’s the solution, this article makes it clear that he’s not the only problem.

My biggest takeaway is that the front office and staff/pitchers aren’t on the same page.

This article is a rough look for Perry.

Yep, especially this part: "Minasian, however, said he was unaware of the other organizational issues that pitchers cited."

[Tank]

that was an enlightening read.

you have to hope that the decision makers are learning as much from their mistakes as they want the players to learn.

[BTH]

2 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Yep, especially this part: "Minasian, however, said he was unaware of the other organizational issues that pitchers cited."

And I’m concerned that problem won’t get fixed.

Perry probably hasn’t heard about it because the pitchers are upset at the front office and may not want to voice their displeasure to the guy in charge.

Hopefully, the pitchers are honest with Perry and he actually learns from it and makes changes like he claims he will.

[BTH]

34 minutes ago, Tyler said:

Because we have the worst coaching and analytics program in the league. 

I noticed in real time that Webb’s changeup usage was dropping with the Angels, despite it being his bread and butter pitch for years.

I guess they were just leaning into the Stuff+ numbers, while not recognizing what has made Webb successful in the past.

This org needs an overhaul.

[BTH]

19 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Once again it appears the analytics guys are f-ing everything up.

 

Analytics aren’t bad, but they can be bad if you don’t know how to properly use them.

The Angels don’t know how to properly use them.

Some of the most successful orgs (Dodgers, Rays) rely heavily on analytics, but they also have the right personnel to interpret the data, explain it, and apply it.

[Angel Oracle]

Just now, Trendon said:

I noticed in real time that Webb’s changeup usage was dropping with the Angels, despite it being his bread and butter pitch for years.

I guess they were just leaning into the Stuff+ numbers, while not recognizing what has made Webb successful in the past.

This org needs an overhaul.

Exactly, Webb threw the change a lot more in the first couple of months, and then the usage dropped almost off the table.

[Angel Oracle]

Will this franchise EVER get on the same page from FO to bench to minors???????

While emphasizing what works BEST for each player

[Jeff Fletcher]

56 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Thank you @Jeff Fletcher

I was one of the people blaming Wise, and while I’m still not sure he’s the solution, this article makes it clear that he’s not the only problem.

My biggest takeaway is that the front office and staff/pitchers aren’t on the same page.

This article is a rough look for Perry.

What I hope people get out of this is that an MLB org is a big machine. It’s silly to assign so much blame or credit to a “pitching coach” when he’s just one of dozens of people working behind the scenes of what you see on the field. 
 

The other thing I really got out of talking to people, which very few people have commented on, is how much difference it makes not having Stassi/Suzuki. 
 

I have a feeling a lot of the same stuff was going on last year but they were smoothing out the rough edges by being able to know (and lead authoritatively) when to go off the script the analytics people were providing. 

[BTH]

9 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The other thing I really got out of talking to people, which very few people have commented on, is how much difference it makes not having Stassi/Suzuki. 

This was something I assumed was a factor as well. Catcher ERA isn’t perfect, but the numbers were illuminating.

Makes me wonder why they didn’t go out and get a veteran guy after O’Hoppe’s injury.

 

[BTH]

12 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

What I hope people get out of this is that an MLB org is a big machine. It’s silly to assign so much blame or credit to a “pitching coach” when he’s just one of dozens of people working behind the scenes of what you see on the field. 

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I got that out of the article.

I think fans may try and blame just one guy because it’s an “easier solution.”

But since it’s a bigger issue overall, the solution is way more complicated and may not be addressed.

In order to completely fix this, they probably have to overhaul the entire “big machine.”

[BTH]

38 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Will this franchise EVER get on the same page from FO to bench to minors???????

Doesn’t help when the owner gets in the way.

Reagins and Dipoto both inherited Scioscia as manager. Eppler had to inherit Scioscia before he got one year with his own guy, only for Arte to bring in Maddon. And then Perry got stuck with Maddon while also getting stuck with Nevin when Arte chickened out on a sale of the team.

[Swordsman78]

4 minutes ago, Trendon said:

This was something I assumed was a factor as well. Catcher ERA isn’t perfect, but the numbers were illuminating.

Makes me wonder why they didn’t go out and get a veteran guy after O’Hoppe’s injury.

 

You "assumed" that (allegedly), but still proceeded to blame Nevin. 

[Swordsman78]

5 minutes ago, Trendon said:

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I got that out of the article.

I think "I" try and blame just one guy because it’s an “easier solution.”

But since it’s a bigger issue overall, the solution is way more complicated and may not be addressed.

In order to completely fix this, they probably have to overhaul the entire “big machine.”

FIFY and...

 

In your own words..."Makes me wonder why Perry didn’t pick one of his own guys to be the interim. Not sure how you could expect much to be different with a Maddon guy leading the team."

[Jeff Fletcher]

12 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Makes me wonder why they didn’t go out and get a veteran guy after O’Hoppe’s injury.

A fair question. Maybe not immediately after O’Hoppe’s injury but certainly once they realized that Stassi wasn’t coming back anytime soon. 
 

And everyone does like Wallach/Thaiss. I think Stassi/Suzuki were just exceptional  in that regard. 

[gurn67]

I have a feeling the successful teams are all doing this. The Dodgers, Rays, Astros, Braves, etc...

They probably just have better people doing those jobs. Just like they have better GM's, front office personnel, managers, coaches, scouting, etc...Oh, and ownership or course.

[BTH]

10 minutes ago, gurn67 said:

They probably just have better people doing those jobs. Just like they have better GM's, front office personnel, managers, coaches, scouting, etc...Oh, and ownership or course.

Yep.

[BTH]

39 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

FIFY

I’m a fan, and I know I wasn’t alone in that sentiment, which is why I used “fans.”

I know your only interaction with Angels fans is to spring into action whenever anyone criticizes Nevin. So I get that you’re not in tune with what other fans think.

[Chuck]

59 minutes ago, Trendon said:

This was something I assumed was a factor as well. Catcher ERA isn’t perfect, but the numbers were illuminating.

Makes me wonder why they didn’t go out and get a veteran guy after O’Hoppe’s injury.

 

Totally overlooked in the difference between this years rotation vs. 2022

Everyone wanted Thaiss because of his potential bat, but besides just his poor catcher's ERA, he clearly misses so many borderline pitches because of a poor setup behind the dish which makes his attempt at pitch framing too obvious or too late.

He's batting just .222 with a .675 OPS.

[Tank]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

What I hope people get out of this is that an MLB org is a big machine. It’s silly to assign so much blame or credit to a “pitching coach” when he’s just one of dozens of people working behind the scenes of what you see on the field. 
 

The other thing I really got out of talking to people, which very few people have commented on, is how much difference it makes not having Stassi/Suzuki. 
 

I have a feeling a lot of the same stuff was going on last year but they were smoothing out the rough edges by being able to know (and lead authoritatively) when to go off the script the analytics people were providing. 

i've been listening to the locked on angels podcast this morning.

fwiw, they quoted one of your tweets from yesterday.

but you need to have a chat with them about the "it's not only the coach" thing you said above.

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Trendon said:

Doesn’t help when the owner gets in the way.

Reagins and Dipoto both inherited Scioscia as manager. Eppler had to inherit Scioscia before he got one year with his own guy, only for Arte to bring in Maddon. And then Perry got stuck with Maddon while also getting stuck with Nevin when Arte chickened out on a sale of the team.

Arte Moreno

West Coast Angelos