Apologies to Perry

[Taylor]

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

We need him to harass some people. That's what it took with Daniel Snyder. 

There are some folks here who would volunteer.

[Jason]

5 minutes ago, Taylor said:

There are some folks here who would volunteer.

I'm not sure you can harass the willing. 

[Angel Oracle]

At least can Wise.

Mediocre pitching performance in 2023, might as well have had Doug White.

Nevin better get better at bullpen management, if still here in 2024.  Left a lot to be desired in 2023.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Angel Oracle

[Halo in Chicago]

I'm as frustrated w some of Nevin's in-game decisions as the next guy, but I'm not sure how much say he (or the next manager) has in the bullpen moves or at least who he is allowed to use on certain nights. That said I'd be fine w moving on from Wise.

[Torridd]

8 minutes ago, Halo in Chicago said:

I'm as frustrated w some of Nevin's in-game decisions as the next guy, but I'm not sure how much say he (or the next manager) has in the bullpen moves or at least who he is allowed to use on certain nights. That said I'd be fine w moving on from Wise.

If this season continues to go downhill several will take the fall even if they aren't to blame.

[DMVol]

1 minute ago, Torridd said:

If this season continues to go downhill several will take the fall even if they aren't to blame.

I don't think you can predict much without knowing what Arte's intentions are going to be regarding any sale....Will a sale back on the table this offseason? Does he want to keep the team indefinitely?  If he is keeping the team, at least for the foreseeable future, I would think Minasian is ok...Eppler got 5 years, just don't think he would axe Perry after 3.....

[Torridd]

3 minutes ago, DMVol said:

I don't think you can predict much without knowing what Arte's intentions are going to be regarding any sale....Will a sale back on the table this offseason? Does he want to keep the team indefinitely?  If he is keeping the team, at least for the foreseeable future, I would think Minasian is ok...Eppler got 5 years, just don't think he would axe Perry after 3.....

Do you think he would rethink a sale so soon after backpedaling? It's hard to believe.

[tomsred]

3 minutes ago, DMVol said:

I don't think you can predict much without knowing what Arte's intentions are going to be regarding any sale....Will a sale back on the table this offseason? Does he want to keep the team indefinitely?  If he is keeping the team, at least for the foreseeable future, I would think Minasian is ok...Eppler got 5 years, just don't think he would axe Perry after 3.....

I agree with that take.  There are so many unknowns going forward, but they all start with what will Ohtani do?  I didn't particularly like Minasian at the beginning, but I've really warmed up to him.  When he got here the pitching was a mess, so he took drastic action by drafting all pitchers.  Then the offense and defense went to hell because of injuries and no depth, so he addressed the depth with veteran position players and trades.  Even though we have overwhelming injuries the offense is way better, particularly when players are healthy.  Now the pitching is back to sucking.  It's like that Whack-A-Mole arcade game where you pound moles into the ground when they pop up, then another one surfaces, and so on.  That's what the team's problems remind me of.  It's hard to be patient when your best player may go elsewhere, but I really believe Minasian is addressing problems as best and expeditiously as a GM can (even given the distraction of possible ownership sale).  There are good things happening, and at some point they will all start to click.  I would hate to start over at this point with a new organization, that would definitely add quite a few years to the process without any guarantee of success, and it could get much worse for a long time.

[DMVol]

14 minutes ago, Torridd said:

Do you think he would rethink a sale so soon after backpedaling? It's hard to believe.

You would think not but I don't think we have any read on it (maybe privately there is some buzz among those who are connected)....Could he say, "I did all I could this year and I'm just not on board for any more" I dunno....I do know this....if he truly wants to ride this out until the team is good again, he may be around for awhile....Going all in this year may or may not have been a good call but the climb back to relevance, assuming it is without Ohtani, looks pretty steep to me. 

[Torridd]

1 minute ago, DMVol said:

You would think not but I don't think we have any read on it (maybe privately there is some buzz among those who are connected)....Could he say, "I did all I could this year and I'm just not on board for any more" I dunno....I do know this....if he truly wants to ride this out until the team is good again, he may be around for awhile....Going all in this year may or may not have been a good call but the climb back to relevance, assuming it is without Ohtani, looks pretty steep to me. 

If he does re-sign Ohtani, I don't see the sense in selling without seeing his handiwork come to fruition, at the least first couple of years.  

[Lazorko Saves]

2 hours ago, Taylor said:

When does Arte get canned?

[Lazorko Saves]

I don't know why Mike Rowe never did a "Horse Milkers" episode of Dirty Jobs.

[Angelsfan1984]

Perry is one of the best GM's the team has had in a very long time. He built depth for days on this team. It is completely out of his control that all of the depth was decimated. At the beginning of the season there were convos of having too many options in the infield and who the better 4th outfielder was for the the team vs who to have in AAA. 

Its also not his fault Ward has become a cyborg pirate. He kept Nevin on for continuity rather than replacing him. I dont think that happens if he knows Arte was still going to be the owner. 

2 things i will fault perry for:

-outside of Giolito, i dont like the trade deadline at all. I still believe Giolito and Lopez were good additions with aspirations toward a playoff run. 

-not putting a women's restroom in the clubhouse for Rendon. He shouldn't be able to pee next to the rest of the guys.

[BTH]

3 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

I'm not a big Arte fan, but I doubt the following is Arte's fault:

He goes for Gerrit Cole,  but Cole a Yankees fan growing up goes to New York.

He pivots and signs the best free agent bat on the market in Anthony Rendon

It is Arte’s fault.

The team needed pitching that offseason, not a bat. That’s why Cole was the #1 target.

Worst case scenario when he pivots to pitching is he signs Bumgarner, who got two years and $160M less than Rendon.

Instead, he hamstrung the team’s payroll for 7 years.

The difference in AAV is $18M.

[BTH]

2 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Nevin and Perry have both done a good job with an extremely difficult year.  Truly, what difference would another manager have made? Nevin has been the face of the club in really shitty circumstances and he’s done a great job.  The players seem to like him a lot.  

How has Nevin done a good job?

Nevin’s been the face of the club that’s gone on two long stretches of losing.

Who cares if the players like him? Those players are the ones going out there and losing games at the end of the day. If they want to keep a manager who they like, they should try winning games.

[Revad]

3 hours ago, Torridd said:

He doesn't deserve this. From the beginning of the season, he seemed to do what was necessary for backup in case of injuries. Then he goes all in during the trading range. Maybe Arte pulled some strings but I think PM basically ran the team as he wanted. We may never find out if he wanted to keep or trade Ohtani but I think the right choice was made, even now. Yet, I commiserate with him because this team wasn't supposed to take a gut punch and just lay on the mat. It's a real shame.

Nicely said.

[Jason]

24 minutes ago, Lazorko Saves said:

I don't know why Mike Rowe never did a "Horse Milkers" episode of Dirty Jobs.

[HBAngel13]

My take on necessary offseason changes:

Thorough examination of medical and training staff. Maybe it’s just a fluke, but it seems like everyone is getting hurt - young and old. We have seen enough of this over multiple seasons to believe there is something fundamentally wrong.

Part ways with Matt Wise. There have been several high profile examples of players going to MILB and getting the proper adjustments. Detmers should have taken steps forward in 2023 but has regressed. I feel like if he was in the Dodgers/Rays org he would already be an all star.  

Part ways with Marcus Thames. The offense has been good, but the approach is beyond frustrating. Too many Ks, bad situational hitting, hitting with RISP, watching pitches in the zone for called strikes and flailing at pitches outside the zone.  

Part ways with Phil Nevin. This one is tougher because he does bring an intensity that has been lackingin the past. However, a managers main ability to affect the game is bullpen management. There have been many instances where he has been outmaneuvered or made inexplicable choices.  Maybe he is handcuffed by Tamin?   Hard to say for sure, but he was a placeholder from when the team was up for sale. 

Find a way to reduce the strikeouts. This could be a combination of new personnel and/or a revamped approach.  A little more contact would go a long way. 

I really like what Perry has done overall. Not everything has worked, but most of his moves were good, calculated bets.  He also has made some shrewd trades. It would have been interesting to see what he could have pried loose for Ohtani. Unless Arte decides to sell, he is going to have his work cut out for him again this offseason.  He is one of the few reasons I still have some optimism beyond 2023…

[Docwaukee]

I think Perry is a good GM, but I can throw a little shade in his direction.   

Outside of injuries, the bullpen is the main reason this team hasn't had sustained success this year.  A bit of that is on him but most of that stems the decade long dearth of arms coming through this org.  

You go back about ten years and the top relief arms that were cultivated by this org have been Mike Morin, Jose Alvarez, Cam Bedrosian, Keynan Middleton, and Justin Anderson.  That is just astoundingly awful.  

[Wisconsin27]

3 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

I'm not a big Arte fan, but I doubt the following is Arte's fault:

He goes for Gerrit Cole,  but Cole a Yankees fan growing up goes to New York.

He pivots and signs the best free agent bat on the market in Anthony Rendon coming off a World Series MVP and one of the more consistent bats in MLB ahead of signing with the Angels.

Rendon becomes the most injury prone player that I've seen in Angels history, though a lot of those injuries were not necessarily his fault. 

Arte had nothing to do with the way the Angels have been unable to stay healthy this season. Could be a totally different story if their key guys stay relatively healthy this season. 

"Pivoting" and signing Rendon was on Arte, Chuck.  And it wasn't the first time he chased a flashy, low-30's position player in free agency.  The W-L of this team during his ownership is certainly on Arte.

I don't think he deserves to get blamed for injuries or not a willingness to spend.  But he likes to spend on 7-day a week players (position players) who attract at that gate and have name recognition.  The Rendon signing seemed like a panic at the time, tbh.  And no one could have predicted it would end up being this bad.  I mean, it's just horrible.

 

 

[greginpsca]

13 guys on the 60 day IL. That is half of the 26 man roster.That doesn't count the 10 and 15 day lists.3

[Swordsman78]

2 hours ago, Trendon said:

How has Nevin done a good job?

Nevin’s been the face of the club that’s gone on two long stretches of losing.

Who cares if the players like him? Those players are the ones going out there and losing games at the end of the day. If they want to keep a manager who they like, they should try winning games.

Arte likes Nevin.  Your take is vindictive and awful.  Looking for a scape goat?   There is none.   Looking for a reason?  It's right in front of you and has been illustrated in multiple places on this forum. 

[BTH]

7 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Arte likes Nevin.  Your take is vindictive and awful.  Looking for a scape goat?   There is none.   Looking for a reason?  It's right in front of you and has been illustrated in multiple places on this forum. 

Enjoy the last two months with Nevin, cause that’s all he’s gonna get.

 

[Chuck]

2 hours ago, Trendon said:

It is Arte’s fault.

The team needed pitching that offseason, not a bat. That’s why Cole was the #1 target.

Worst case scenario when he pivots to pitching is he signs Bumgarner, who got two years and $160M less than Rendon.

Instead, he hamstrung the team’s payroll for 7 years.

The difference in AAV is $18M.

Bumgarner has been a bum. 

Rendon with Trout and Ohtani was supposed to be one of the best 1-2-3 punches in all of baseball if Rendon carried his 2019 season of performances forward and he stayed on the field. 

Before Cole they offered Zach Wheeler more money but he elected to play for the Phillies because his wife wanted to be close to home.

[Blarg]

3 hours ago, Trendon said:

Worst case scenario when he pivots to pitching is he signs Bumgarner, who got two years and $160M less than Rendon.

No he didn't. He got a 4 year deal with Arizona worth $71 million where he only pitched 9 games the first year and was DFA'ed this season after only 4 starts.