Angels bad imo

[Angels 1961]

10 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

Trading Estevez would be a big mistake.  It would also blow a huge hole in the back of the bullpen.  Without Joyce, and without CRodriguez, the only pitcher down there that I would even consider to close games is Soriano. 

His trade value will never be higher. Halos will be out of race so fill in closer rest of this year. Angels need to hit reset button and build for future.

[Angels 1961]

1 minute ago, Palomar said:

Jeez, can we not trade the players that ARE working like Estevez? It's not like we are here to help other teams make the playoffs.

Angels need to build for the future. This team is not going anywhere this year.

[Stradling]

15 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

Trading Estevez would be a big mistake.  It would also blow a huge hole in the back of the bullpen.  Without Joyce, and without CRodriguez, the only pitcher down there that I would even consider to close games is Soriano. 

 

4 minutes ago, Palomar said:

Jeez, can we not trade the players that ARE working like Estevez? It's not like we are here to help other teams make the playoffs.

If we are blowing it up and trading players that have value what good is a closer?  Get what you can for a one inning guy.

[Duren, Duren]

Remember the positive buzz when rookies and young players like Neto, O'Hoppe, Detmers and others first began to play? The anticipation around Adell?  Even when Fletcher and Walsh joined the team? Now expectations about Moniak? And so on. Not every highly hyped prospect works out, but neither do all veteran acquisitions. 

Either you can enjoy having a winning team or one building positively. Everything else is a patchwork approach. Trying to  survive season by season. Sometimes things fall into place, but rarely is that approach sustainable.

I think there can be a dimension of fun and interest watching a rebuilding team if there is smart  management and a blueprint. Ironically, which won't be known right away while the growing pains unfold. 

Arte's fixation on big names is one of the factors that has shaped how various GMs have operated. It hasn't worked, and the results have been steadily disappointing over last half dozen years. The entire Ohtani span. With this season likely the best of that period. But not playoff level. 

If Ohtani leaves or is traded they have to step back and rebuild with prospects. Acquiring and developing them will be the GM's priority. Not bidding or trading  for older veterans. And it can be fun for fans if expectations for immediate success are lowered. 

 

 

 

[Revad]

5 minutes ago, Duren, Duren said:

And it can be fun for fans if expectations for immediate success are lowered. 

My expectations are pretty low already, I wouldn’t be upset if they did a quick rebuild.  But Artie needs to spend on the entire organization and commit to current salary levels as well.

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, AngelStew43 said:

Trading Estevez would be a big mistake.  It would also blow a huge hole in the back of the bullpen.  Without Joyce, and without CRodriguez, the only pitcher down there that I would even consider to close games is Soriano. 

If we are trading Estevez  then we dont care who is closing this year.  

[AngelsFaninGA]

7 minutes ago, stormngt said:

If we are trading Estevez  then we dont care who is closing this year.  

It doesn't matter who's closing games when you're not winning many to begin with

[stormngt]

Just now, AngelsFaninGA said:

It doesn't matter who's closing games when you're not winning many to begin with

Agreed

[TurboFan]

Looking for some optimism and some perspective, consider that in the last 32 games since the Angels beat the Astros 2-1 on June 4, every team in the American League West has lost ground with the exception of Seattle which was .500 then and is at .500 now. Nobody is a winner. Second best in the division is a tie between the Angels and Astros who are both down -2 games. Next is Texas at -6 games in the same period, followed by Oakland who are only one game worse that Texas at -7 in that period. As bad as we seem (are), the entire division has been on a slow slide for 5 weeks. Texas and Houston have not been pulling away, we've just fallen off. The competition is giving us a hand, but we still can't capitalize. Painful.

[TurboFan]

I think we, the Angels fans, may be screwed whether we continue patching or sell and rebuild. Because the organization as a whole has not demonstrated a proficiency for selecting or developing talent. I am afraid a rebuild won't get properly rebuilt by this organization. It seems to me that a rebuild of the upper management, followed by a rebuild of the baseball organization, must precede a rebuild of the 40 man roster. My only hope is a miraculous and sudden turnaround. It doesn't seem possible, but that is why a miracle is required.

[ukyah]

i'm hoping arte's "unfinished business" is finished now and he sells the team this offseason. stop throwing good money after bad, arte. you're no good at MLB ownership. go back to something you're good at.

[Swordsman78]

22 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Angels need to build for the future. This team is not going anywhere this year.

Correct.  Too much external noise and pressure this year. 

  Circle the wagons, commit to the staff and build a plan to be competitive in 2 years. 

Stop worrying about about Mike Trout not being in the playoffs,

get rid of Rendon asap.  Too self centered, and not reliable.  

Invest in Starting pitching so they don't have to constantly be forced to come from behind, and blow up the bullpen.

The young core of players are competitive and play with confidence and edge.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Swordsman78

[IheartLA]

Attendance and hype was actually really good till the last few weeks, I don’t know if arte can stomach a full blow up meaning empty stadiums, no one caring, although we may be reaching that point anyways.

[Blarg]

5 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

It’s not looking good fellas.  

[Warfarin]

3 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

His trade value will never be higher. Halos will be out of race so fill in closer rest of this year. Angels need to hit reset button and build for future.

I think a common thing amongst various fan bases is that most want to trade their underperforming players for good prospects and want to keep their good performers.

Obviously, that is not the way it works.  Acquiring teams want to acquire your good performing players, not the struggling ones.

Last year, a lot of people were viewing Ward as a cornerstone, given his breakout performance.  Fast-forward a year later, and as he has struggled most of this year, a number of fans are now proposing he be traded and that Moniak is now a cornerstone.  

In reality, GM's careers are made (and lost) by these very same decisions.  They have to assess - is this player who is performing well going to continue to do so?  Or should we trade him before he turns into a pumpkin?  Same thing with prospects - some play great in the minors, then struggle and flame out in the majors, whereas others perform somewhat modestly, get promoted, and then set the world on fire.

In our particular situation, if we are indeed going to move towards rebuilding, it would make sense to trade Estevez.  He has been great, but he is only here through next year and you can likely get some pretty useful players, given how well he has performed, and likely fit our contention window better.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Your players lose interest when they "No longer Trust the process". "Or, they see what's going on around them". They become what's in it for me prior to contract time and chase stats (to get paid and leave), or they become complacent (locked in to long-term contracts).

Similar to a toxic relationship people from the outside looking in can see it sometimes. Sometimes, the real stuff is hidden. The people in it can't see it. Or, they have been bulldozed, stone walled and gaslit to believe if they try harder it will make a positive change in the relationship. It doesn't. The dysfunction continues and eventually erupts into scorched earth.

There is only one main thing that can happen to fix it. And then a few inner changes. The GM and Scouting aren't any of them. Development is another issue. IF/WHEN that change comes it will be a New Start. Most here today, won't be here.

The reality: Half of the organization is rowing one way with half hearted attempts or guys over their heads. The other half another way. One guy trying to be buddies with another group. Then you have a couple of hang me on'ers. This has become a recipe for disaster. 

[TroutField]

I gave up during the Padres series. The writing was on the wall when we thought Mike Moustakas was going to be able to save this team from circling the drain. The Mike Trout and subsequent Adell injuries were the final nails in the coffin. The pitching has been absolutely atrocious from top to bottom. 
 

Texas took all the good fortune available this year and the angels were left with nothing but mis-fortune. Jung, Jankowski, Heim, Garcia, all clicking at the same time and then Seagar and Semien turning back into superstars. It must be nice to have everything go right. Meanwhile if the Angels hired Bochy we would have sucked, if we signed Seagar he would be hurt and not perform, same with Semien. I just don’t understand why this organization is so snake bitten.

 

im losing interest in MLB slowly but surely, it’s exhausting watching your favorite sports organization continually flounder. How can you stay engaged when losing is at the forefront of every conversation. I’ll have a hard time jumping back onto the wagon next season, how can we get excited with this team? It feels so far from being competitive, complete rebuild is needed. 

[Angels 1961]

22 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

Your players lose interest when they "No longer Trust the process". "Or, they see what's going on around them". They become what's in it for me prior to contract time and chase stats (to get paid and leave), or they become complacent (locked in to long-term contracts).

Similar to a toxic relationship people from the outside looking in can see it sometimes. Sometimes, the real stuff is hidden. The people in it can't see it. Or, they have been bulldozed, stone walled and gaslit to believe if they try harder it will make a positive change in the relationship. It doesn't. The dysfunction continues and eventually erupts into scorched earth.

There is only one main thing that can happen to fix it. And then a few inner changes. The GM and Scouting aren't any of them. Development is another issue. IF/WHEN that change comes it will be a New Start. Most here today, won't be here.

The reality: Half of the organization is rowing one way with half hearted attempts or guys over their heads. The other half another way. One guy trying to be buddies with another group. Then you have a couple of hang me on'ers. This has become a recipe for disaster. 

Abandoned ship abandoned ship lifeboats for the young and cheap players. 

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Sell it all.  

[ELEVEN]

On 7/15/2023 at 8:47 AM, UndertheHalo said:

It’s not looking good fellas.  They’re going to need a semi miraculous run to get back into serious contention for even the wild card.  It’s getting hard to see any path to that happening with the group they’ve got.  Really no segment of the teams game is good.  Too many big zeros in the line up every night for various reasons.  The starting pitching has been remarkably disappointing.  The bullpen I mean it doesn’t matter.  That Moustakas big brain moment last night - the guy that was giving them the “go team” leadership speech the day before - I think broke any last hope I had.  They just don’t seem to have enough.  Anyway.  Rip. 
 

Are we giving up here? 

See ya

[Palomar]

On 7/15/2023 at 11:35 AM, Stradling said:

 

If we are blowing it up and trading players that have value what good is a closer?  Get what you can for a one inning guy.

But we aren't blowing it up...at least at this point.

[Taylor]

They always do this. Put together a solid two to five game stretch, then immediately tank afterward.