Angels bad imo

[UndertheHalo]

It’s not looking good fellas.  They’re going to need a semi miraculous run to get back into serious contention for even the wild card.  It’s getting hard to see any path to that happening with the group they’ve got.  Really no segment of the teams game is good.  Too many big zeros in the line up every night for various reasons.  The starting pitching has been remarkably disappointing.  The bullpen I mean it doesn’t matter.  That Moustakas big brain moment last night - the guy that was giving them the “go team” leadership speech the day before - I think broke any last hope I had.  They just don’t seem to have enough.  Anyway.  Rip. 
 

Are we giving up here? 

Edited July 15, 2023 by UndertheHalo

[fan_since79]

We're playing out the string one excruciating game at a time. Die-hard fans. I am confident we'll make the playoffs sometime in the next ten years, but yeah, not this year. Patience, Grasshopper!

[full circle]

This season is over.  We don’t have the continuity in place to really contend.  The team had enough talent, but once again the preparation is lacking.  I don’t feel we have the best and brightest in the coaching ranks and in the front office.  We never seem to get the most out of the guys we got.  

[fan_since79]

Estevez has been really good, and O'Hoppe and Neto too, when healthy. Ohtani of course, but we really need to trade him and get some rebuilding parts in return. The team needs an overhaul. 

[Angel Oracle]

It’s like the constant injuries helped to take a toll on their psyche?

Total breakdown the past 11 games

Are we seeing the birth of the Total Collapse Part 2, similar to 2022?

43% of the way to tying the franchise losing streak record, with 5 games coming vs the Cheaters and NYY

[Angel Oracle]

7 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Estevez has been really good, and O'Hoppe and Neto too, when healthy. Ohtani of course, but we really need to trade him and get some rebuilding parts in return. The team needs an overhaul. 

I did change my mind.   Keeping Ohtani going forward won’t address what’s going on these past 7.5 seasons.

Maybe a rebuild is necessary to finally get the right prospects/players in here, and beef up scouting.

Keep the FO, they came from the Braves FO, where it’s not all about big money.

[Revad]

The mid season ZIPS standings update is available:  https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-zips-midseason-standings-update/.

Angels are projected to finish fourth in the AL West with a record of 81-81.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Revad

[REDneck]

35 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Keep the FO, they came from the Braves FO, where it’s not all about big money

The Braves organization is into winning baseball games and cool things like World Series titles.

At this point I have no idea what the Angel organization is all about. It certainly doesn't appear that their into playing good baseball and winning.

[Warfarin]

7 minutes ago, REDneck said:

The Braves organization is into winning baseball games and cool things like World Series titles.

At this point I have no idea what the Angel organization is all about. It certainly doesn't appear that their into playing good baseball and winning.

Minasian came over after the 2020 season.  It takes time for a new regime to hire their people and fill out the FO, and in turn then start to hire people to oversee the draft and development process.

After filling out their team, it then takes time to draft/acquire the players they want and, over multiple years, develop them in the minors.

Some FOs can accelerate this process by having their owner permit a rebuild.  Minasian was not granted that ability for the most part, so he has had to gradually build.

There are some good signs in terms of the development of talent, but while no one really wants to hear it, it just takes time for the whole process to unfold.  

2021 was the first draft that he had, which was just 2 years ago.  The key question is, is the overall talent and health of the organization trending in a positive direction, or a negative direction?

JMO, but I think overall, the talent is trending positively.  

[HanfordGuy]

 

[Angel Oracle]

10 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Minasian came over after the 2020 season.  It takes time for a new regime to hire their people and fill out the FO, and in turn then start to hire people to oversee the draft and development process.

After filling out their team, it then takes time to draft/acquire the players they want and, over multiple years, develop them in the minors.

Some FOs can accelerate this process by having their owner permit a rebuild.  Minasian was not granted that ability for the most part, so he has had to gradually build.

There are some good signs in terms of the development of talent, but while no one really wants to hear it, it just takes time for the whole process to unfold.  

2021 was the first draft that he had, which was just 2 years ago.  The key question is, is the overall talent and health of the organization trending in a positive direction, or a negative direction?

JMO, but I think overall, the talent is trending positively.  

We’re seeing how overrated Eppler was.

He had FIVE years, and other than signing Ohtani and drafting Detmers, what did he do to improve the org?

[Warfarin]

8 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

We’re seeing how overrated Eppler was.

He had FIVE years, and other than signing Ohtani and drafting Detmers, what did he do to improve the org?

I think Eppler is probably pretty bad at his job.  I believe he generally was well-received here for awhile because he was #NotDipoto, but look at the train wreck in New York right now.  By far the biggest payroll this sport has ever seen, and they are massively underperforming.  He signed just about every big name he could, and it has not panned out.

Personally, I think Perry has had to rebuild most of this organization from the ground up.  This is not to say everything Eppler did was bad, as we have some solid performing players from his era, but I think overall, he was probably not particularly good at his job.

Perry has us heading in the right direction.  Likely not in enough time to retain Ohtani, but that is more the fault of his predecessors and ownership than a reflection of him.

[Taylor]

[stormngt]

2 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

It’s not looking good fellas.  They’re going to need a semi miraculous run to get back into serious contention for even the wild card.  It’s getting hard to see any path to that happening with the group they’ve got.  Really no segment of the teams game is good.  Too many big zeros in the line up every night for various reasons.  The starting pitching has been remarkably disappointing.  The bullpen I mean it doesn’t matter.  That Moustakas big brain moment last night - the guy that was giving them the “go team” leadership speech the day before - I think broke any last hope I had.  They just don’t seem to have enough.  Anyway.  Rip. 
 

Are we giving up here? 

Sounds like you are

[AngelsMetsWS]

33 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

I think Eppler is probably pretty bad at his job.  I believe he generally was well-received here for awhile because he was #NotDipoto, but look at the train wreck in New York right now.  By far the biggest payroll this sport has ever seen, and they are massively underperforming.  He signed just about every big name he could, and it has not panned out.

Personally, I think Perry has had to rebuild most of this organization from the ground up.  This is not to say everything Eppler did was bad, as we have some solid performing players from his era, but I think overall, he was probably not particularly good at his job.

Perry has us heading in the right direction.  Likely not in enough time to retain Ohtani, but that is more the fault of his predecessors and ownership than a reflection of him.

This is spot on.  it could be worse than rooting for the angels, you could have two teams and the other is the Mets 

although I do give the Mets credit for going for it. They took a high risk path of signing lots of older stars. It did not work out but they made a maximal effort. 
 

Angels probably need to tear it down to the rafters and start fresh. 

[Stradling]

33 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Yes. 

[stormngt]

36 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Yes

[stormngt]

37 minutes ago, Taylor said:

I have to ask.  How often were we clearly out of the playoffs hunt (lets say 7 games out) by August with Scioscia

[Warfarin]

10 minutes ago, AngelsMetsWS said:

This is spot on.  it could be worse than rooting for the angels, you could have two teams and the other is the Mets 

although I do give the Mets credit for going for it. They took a high risk path of signing lots of older stars. It did not work out but they made a maximal effort. 
 

Angels probably need to tear it down to the rafters and start fresh. 

Signing a bunch of stars to large contracts rarely seems to work out well, unless it is being done in conjunction with a really strong farm system that is also pumping out MLB ready talent.  

The Mets only need to look to their own history to know this, and they have a nifty book that they can even reference:

History is indeed repeating itself.  Eppler was given the money to pursue Cole while he was here, didn't get him, and immediately pivoted to Rendon so he could use Arte's money and sign a star.  Minasian, OTOH, was smart enough to tell Arte he needed far more than just Trea Turner, and spread the money around instead of spending it all on one guy.

That is the difference between a good GM and a poor one, IMO.  But to be fair, maybe Eppler did tell Arte that and he "forced" him to sign Rendon?  No idea.

[AngelStew43]

[Angels 1961]

It's Time for reset now. Besides Ohtani halos have Renfroe, Drury, Esteviz, Moore Moose, Escobar, Devenski and few others to trade. Love to dump Tyler Anderson also as many teams looking for starters. Be nice to get his money or some of it off the books. Drury and Esteviz signed for next year at good prices and value is high. Bring in as many young players as you can. This off season find a direction for this team going forward. If halos do not trade Ohtani would be a huge mistake. 8 losing seasons things need to change. Maybe get with Trout in off season and see if he wants to be traded. Angels would need to eat some of his money for sure. Rendon will be your DH. 

[AngelStew43]

Hell, yes I miss Mike.  His teams always did the little things well.  Last night, for the first time in recent memory, the Angels sacrificed with runners on first and second and none out.  We scored twice.  I would watch and wonder why we aren't doing that more often, or why this is the first time this season that I can recall the team doing that at all. 

Even when we do have Trout, Ohtani and Rendon playing, we should be trying to manufacture runs at every opportunity. 

[AngelsMetsWS]

13 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Signing a bunch of stars to large contracts rarely seems to work out well, unless it is being done in conjunction with a really strong farm system that is also pumping out MLB ready talent.  

The Mets only need to look to their own history to know this, and they have a nifty book that they can even reference:

History is indeed repeating itself.  Eppler was given the money to pursue Cole while he was here, didn't get him, and immediately pivoted to Rendon so he could use Arte's money and sign a star.  Minasian, OTOH, was smart enough to tell Arte he needed far more than just Trea Turner, and spread the money around instead of spending it all on one guy.

That is the difference between a good GM and a poor one, IMO.  But to be fair, maybe Eppler did tell Arte that and he "forced" him to sign Rendon?  No idea.

I’ve got that one on my shelf!!

[AngelStew43]

Trading Estevez would be a big mistake.  It would also blow a huge hole in the back of the bullpen.  Without Joyce, and without CRodriguez, the only pitcher down there that I would even consider to close games is Soriano. 

[Palomar]

Jeez, can we not trade the players that ARE working like Estevez? It's not like we are here to help other teams make the playoffs.