Angels sign Carlos Estevez (2 years, $13.5 million)

[Warfarin]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

5:1 K:W rate away from CO last year.  Career BB/9 3.5.  There a bit more there than the usual hard thrower.

Yeah.  Looking at the reliever contracts that have been issued this off-season, 13.5mil for a reliever with potential but hasn’t quite put it all together sounds about right.

[Erstad Grit]

43 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Scot Shields was a unicorn.  How his arm managed to do the things it did.. a mystery.   Probably an alien.  

He threw 16 innings in a college game  

Edited December 6, 2022 by Erstad Grit

[Second Base]

15 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

5:1 K:W rate away from CO last year.  Career BB/9 3.5.  There a bit more there than the usual hard thrower.

Yeah but you can't just excuse everything that happened in Colorado. You take it with a grain of salt, but you don't pretend it didn't happen. 

[Pancake Bear]

8 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Yeah but you can't just excuse everything that happened in Colorado. You take it with a grain of salt, but you don't pretend it didn't happen. 

We get it, dude. You hate everything the team does in free agency. When you're on the opposite side from guys like Petriello, Eno Sarris, and, for that matter, Bill Hezel, maybe you should get some humility and admit maybe you know less than you think you do.

[Second Base]

9 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

We get it, dude. You hate everything the team does in free agency. When you're on the opposite side from guys like Petriello, Eno Sarris, and, for that matter, Bill Hezel, maybe you should get some humility and admit maybe you know less than you think you do.

Let's address these individually. 

1. Free agency is fine, it's the team as presently constructed that I don't feel is competitive, while also admitting that it's not like Minasian has any other options. He's not going to start a fire sale that he won't be around to conclude. 

2. You conveniently ignore that I've stated this multiple times to support your narrative. Which is like me saying Pancake Bear loves everything the Angels do desire the fact they don't win. It's reductive, inaccurate and unintelligent. But you do you, I guess. 

3. That's really cool Pet likes the Angels moves. Eno and I actually go way back and still talk from time to time. He'd appreciate that you hold him in such high regard . Bill Hezel.... Yeah ok, if you say so. 

4. At what point in this thread did I claim to know something? I've stated the obvious. There's lots of hard throwers out there, and things that happen in Colorado, still count. Which of these are factually untrue or illogical? Please tell me so that I can edit or remove them. 

5. If you wanna be a butthole, I'll give you plenty of ammo to throw back in my direction, but picking this thread of all of them is ridiculous. 

6. Who pissed in your Cheerios this morning? You don't like that someone doesn't like what you like so you take to the internet to call into question his humility? Things in the real world must be pissing you off or something. 

[Stradling]

Covid changed a lot of people. 

[REDneck]

Is anyone else of the opinion that there is to much money tied up in the bullpen and it is still suspect?

3 guys at 7mill? 

I'm a big Bullpen guy.

I know current market rates and volatility.

 

 

[Inside Pitch]

44 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Yeah but you can't just excuse everything that happened in Colorado. You take it with a grain of salt, but you don't pretend it didn't happen. 

Nah, not doing any of that.  I don't have a really strong opinion on this other than my usual thoughts.  FA is a bad place to find middle RPs. 

That said, I don't think it's wise to ignore the impact Coors might have on anything that bends, so there is reason to believe there is upside there. 

Mostly, I believe his biggest strength has been pretty decent command for someone his size that throws that hard.  His L/R splits are weird.  Dominates RHBs, the slider in particular has been death to them., lefties have gotten to him a bit.  

Honestly, the less Loup faces RHBs the better IMO, that's where I think he helps the most.

[Second Base]

12 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Nah, not doing any of that.  I don't have a really strong opinion on this other than my usual thoughts.  FA is a bad place to find middle RPs. 

That said, I don't think it's wise to ignore the impact Coors might have on anything that bends, so there is reason to believe there is upside there. 

Mostly, I believe his biggest strength has been pretty decent command for someone his size that throws that hard.  His L/R splits are weird.  Dominates RHBs, the slider in particular has been death to them., lefties have gotten to him a bit.  

Honestly, the less Loup faces RHBs the better IMO, that's where I think he helps the most.

Everything you just said, is true. I hate spending on free agent relievers, but among the relievers available, Estevez is as good as any I suppose. I'll limit my expectations though. They were far too high for Tepera and Loup.  And Cody Allen. And Sean Burnett. And Ryan Madson. 

[Taylor]

Either he'll be nails or we'll be calling for him to get DFAd on May 9.

[Warfarin]

14 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Everything you just said, is true. I hate spending on free agent relievers, but among the relievers available, Estevez is as good as any I suppose. I'll limit my expectations though. They were far too high for Tepera and Loup.  And Cody Allen. And Sean Burnett. And Ryan Madson. 

The rate of failure with FA RP signings is very high.  I am generally not a fan of them per se, but if we are going to take some shots, I'm okay with the types of deals we have been seeing (2/15ish).  At least if you miss, it isn't overly burdensome for long.  If Loup and Tepera don't recover this year, then you can just easily move along, or even release them mid-season if needed.

[Second Base]

9 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

The rate of failure with FA RP signings is very high.  I am generally not a fan of them per se, but if we are going to take some shots, I'm okay with the types of deals we have been seeing (2/15ish).  At least if you miss, it isn't overly burdensome for long.  If Loup and Tepera don't recover this year, then you can just easily move along, or even release them mid-season if needed.

Yeah. I'm all for throwing poop against the wall to see what sticks. I just wonder if there's a fair tradeoff between less money and more certainty. 

[Docwaukee]

This is pretty much the type of move I expected Perry to make for a closer.  And I fully believe this guy get's first crack at the last three outs.  They might flip flop him and Herget here and there depending on the matchups like vs. the same team on back to back days.  

There's obviously so risk there but I think you're paying a bit for what you can make this guy into than what someone else got out of him that's unlikely to be repeated.  

It's a decent cost containment move.  Instead of paying Iglesias 16m, you're giving that to this guy and Renfroe or Urshela.  

My first thought on salary was 2/10 until I remembered how big the reliever market has gotten.  

I'm happy with this deal.  I'm way more confident we'll get better results than with Loup and Tepera.  

I reserve the right to change my mind if they don't get a solid MIFer but this year, I think they will.  

[Angels 1961]

11 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

The rate of failure with FA RP signings is very high.  I am generally not a fan of them per se, but if we are going to take some shots, I'm okay with the types of deals we have been seeing (2/15ish).  At least if you miss, it isn't overly burdensome for long.  If Loup and Tepera don't recover this year, then you can just easily move along, or even release them mid-season if needed.

Tepera and Loup were not great last year but also not horrible. I see bounce back for them as both in contract year.

[Warfarin]

1 minute ago, Angels 1961 said:

Tepera and Loup were not great last year but also not horrible. I see bounce back for them as both in contract year.

Yeah, I agree.  We have had some really bad FA signings in the past (Cody Allen, anyone?), and this wasn't on that level.  They were just thoroughly mediocre.  You would have hoped for more, but at least they weren't sub-replacement level, either.

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, Warfarin said:

Yeah, I agree.  We have had some really bad FA signings in the past (Cody Allen, anyone?), and this wasn't on that level.  They were just thoroughly mediocre.  You would have hoped for more, but at least they weren't sub-replacement level, either.

Crazy that that was three years ago.  Feels like forever.

[Angelsjunky]

This seems like a "too clever" signing...like in fantasy baseball, when everyone wants the same "sleeper" guy, who ends up going much earlier than he should.

Sort of like Lorenzen, actually.

My concern is that a lot of that $7M AAV is contingent upon things happening that haven't happened yet. Maybe Estevez is better than his Coors-tainted numbers say, and we end up with a really good reliever or even newly hatched elite closer. But it is another "maybe."

[jsnpritchett]

3 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

This seems like a "too clever" signing...like in fantasy baseball, when everyone wants the same "sleeper" guy, who ends up going much earlier than he should.

Sort of like Lorenzen, actually.

My concern is that a lot of that $7M AAV is contingent upon things happening that haven't happened yet. Maybe Estevez is better than his Coors-tainted numbers say, and we end up with a really good reliever or even newly hatched elite closer. But it is another "maybe."

This is pretty much where I am--and good call on the Lorenzen comp.

 

[Taylor]

20 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Crazy that that was three years ago.  Feels like forever.

My wife knows next to nothing about the Angels but she still remembers how much Cody Allen sucked, because we went to a game together where he blew a 3-run lead in the 9th with two outs or something like that.

[jsnpritchett]

2 minutes ago, Taylor said:

My wife knows next to nothing about the Angels but she still remembers how much Cody Allen sucked, because we went to a game together where he blew a 3-run lead in the 9th with two outs or something like that.

That could have been any one of like 15 of his appearances...

[Warfarin]

10 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

That could have been any one of like 15 of his appearances...

Lol, yeah I was just thinking, "that roughly describes most of his Angels appearances."

[AvsBroncosAngels05]

I watch quite a few Rockies games here in CO and this is a solid pickup for the Angels. He's a good arm and has (knock on wood) been pretty durable from what I remember. In the mini 60 game 2020 season Bud Black pretty much used him everyday. But I'm a fan of this signing. Good arm for the late innings. 

[ukyah]

5 hours ago, Warfarin said:

 

i'd say the key to unlocking more potential would be increasing his spin rate.

[ukyah]

3 hours ago, Second Base said:

Estevez just feels like a guy you can claim off the MLB scrap heap for a half million. He throws 98 with a great slider. 

So do a lot of other guys without MLB success. 

but he's had mlb success?

 

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, ukyah said:

i'd say the key to unlocking more potential would be increasing his spin rate.

Jeppy allegedly had a high spin rate.