Angels sign Carlos Estevez (2 years, $13.5 million)

[Warfarin]

10 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

And that is how you wear down your bullpen. historically speaking from Sven with numerous examples! To Madden last year Tepera and Loup.... to Dave Roberts.

Could you explain that thought process a little further?  Dave Roberts had Jansen all those years and stuck with him despite various problems.  He stuck by Kimbrel last year all the way until the very end of the season.  How does that exemplify having a flexible late inning approach ..?

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

bingo 

So you think there ARE solid conclusions to be drawn from home/away splits for his blown save %? If so, please explain why. 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

bingo 

So, then don't reply? IF you disagree? But, most in here would rather run shade.

[Stradling]

Just now, jsnpritchett said:

So you think there ARE solid conclusions to be drawn from home/away splits for his blown save %? If so, please explain why. 

There’s nothing to be gained from such a small sample size. 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

1 minute ago, jsnpritchett said:

So you think there ARE solid conclusions to be drawn from home/away splits for his blown save %? If so, please explain why. 

Actually, if you re-read my replies. That is only a single portion depending if he is brought in here for high leverage, mid guy, set-up, or closing.

It's all relevant.

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

There’s nothing to be gained from such a small sample size. 

Correct. That's been my point all along. 

[eligrba4ever]

23 walks in 57 innings could make for some white-knuckle 9th-innings if he is going to close. But he did OK at 5,208 feet elevation and better at sea level. Nothing to whine about. Wait until July. Tick Tock.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

5 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Could you explain that thought process a little further?  Dave Roberts had Jansen all those years and stuck with him despite various problems.  He stuck by Kimbrel last year all the way until the very end of the season.  How does that exemplify having a flexible late inning approach ..?

Dane De La Rosa, Scott Shields, mid/setup guys who were pitching throughout the game at anytime without a defined role that ended up blowing out their arms.

the disaster of running out Tepera and Loup at every turn early on last year.

Roberts usually uses 2 guys at anytime during the game and then proceeds to run out his closer. The 2 others get burned out along the way.

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

Actually, if you re-read my replies. That is only a single portion depending if he is brought in here for high leverage, mid guy, set-up, or closing.

It's all relevant.

No, it's simply not relevant, given how little total closing experience he has. You can continue to say otherwise, but you're wrong.  Comparing 15 or so home and away save opportunities across multiple seasons is laughable.

[Warfarin]

4 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

Dane De La Rosa, Scott Shields, mid guys who were pitching throughout the game at anytime without a defined role that ended up blowing out their arms.

Roberts usually uses 2 guys at anytime during the game and then proceeds to run out his closer. The 2 others get burned out along the way.

I think Scot Shields blew out his arm not because he was used at random times, but because he was run into the ground.  The dude had a year in which he exceeded 100 innings as a reliever, that is just unheard of nowadays.  **EDIT** - my bad, as per IP, he never actually blew out his arm.  My memory is clearly worsening with my age  

As for Roberts - could you give me an example of some of the guys you are referencing?  It seems like his relievers fared rather well this year.  

I think while the usage may look "random" to us, I am sure that a plan is reviewed with relievers to get them mentally prepared for when they may enter.  So for example, they may tell one reliever, "you will enter the game to face these hitters late in the game.  It may be in the 7th or 9th, we aren't sure right now, but as you see them coming through the lineup, get mentally prepared."  Or something along those lines.

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

Dane De La Rosa, Scott Shields, mid/setup guys who were pitching throughout the game at anytime without a defined role that ended up blowing out their arms.

Roberts usually uses 2 guys at anytime during the game and then proceeds to run out his closer. The 2 others get burned out along the way.

Scot Shields blew out his knee...  Arm was never an issue.

[Lou]

6 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

So, then don't reply? IF you disagree? But, most in here would rather run shade.

Huh? 

I was agreeing with you.

[Buttercup]

Ken Rosenthals article today about the crazy spending so far makes this deal look great. Edwin Diaz $102MM vs this deal at $13.5MM. Obviously a different class of reliever but you can use the difference in a lot of helpful ways. That has to be Perry he mentions in this quote. 

“The offseason began with Edwin Díazbecoming the highest-paid reliever in history, agreeing to a five-year, $102 million contract with the Mets. Two other relievers, Robert Suárez (five years, $46 million) and Rafael Montero (three years, $34.5 million) followed with inflated deals. One general manager looking for bullpen help was scrambling to meetings with agents on Sunday night, trying to strike a reasonable two-year deal with a quality reliever, and looking rather harried.”

[Warfarin]

Just now, Buttercup said:

Ken Rosenthals article today about the crazy spending so far makes this deal look great. Edwin Diaz $102MM vs this deal at $13.5MM. Obviously a different class of reliever but you can use the difference in a lot of helpful ways. Not that has to be Perry he mentions in this quote 

“The offseason began with Edwin Díazbecoming the highest-paid reliever in history, agreeing to a five-year, $102 million contract with the Mets. Two other relievers, Robert Suárez (five years, $46 million) and Rafael Montero (three years, $34.5 million) followed with inflated deals. One general manager looking for bullpen help was scrambling to meetings with agents on Sunday night, trying to strike a reasonable two-year deal with a quality reliever, and looking rather harried.”

Yeah I have to say, it seems like Perry has gotten some pretty good value.  The deals may still not work out, but on the surface, Anderson and Estevez's contracts look rather good in comparison to the field, and the acquisitions of Urshela and Renfroe have been rather reasonable.

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

I think Scot Shields blew out his arm not because he was used at random times, but because he was run into the ground.  The dude had a year in which he exceeded 100 innings as a reliever, that is just unheard of nowadays.

As for Roberts - could you give me an example of some of the guys you are referencing?  It seems like his relievers fared rather well this year.  

Patella tendon issues.  Had surgery to end his 2009, came back in 2010 and couldnt land on his lead leg.  He chose to call it a career so he could focus on his real love... chain smoking and milking a single beer for 5 hours.

[Warfarin]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

Patella tendon issues.  Had surgery to end his 2009, came back in 2010 and couldnt land on his lead leg.  He chose to call it a career so he could focus on his real love... chain smoking and milking a single beer for 5 hours.

Yeah, my bad - I edited my comment after I saw what you posted.  My memory is clearly worsening with age, thanks for the correction  

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Yeah, my bad - I edited my comment after I saw what you posted.  My memory is clearly worsening with age, thanks for the correction  

Scot Shields was a unicorn.  How his arm managed to do the things it did.. a mystery.   Probably an alien.  

[AngelStew43]

We now have a lot of BP options.  Tepera, Loup, Estevez, Herget, Ortega, Marte, Ingram, Joyce, CRod.  Maybe Canning if he can't hold up as a starter.  

Nice job building depth.  

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Just now, Warfarin said:

I think Scot Shields blew out his arm not because he was used at random times, but because he was run into the ground.  The dude had a year in which he exceeded 100 innings as a reliever, that is just unheard of nowadays.

As for Roberts - could you give me an example of some of the guys you are referencing?  It seems like his relievers fared rather well this year.  

which is what I'm saying~ 

Bickford, Graterol, May, Victor Gonzalez, Joe Kelley (ineffective in playoffs), Baez, Alexander, Stripling, Garcia, Hudson, Cingrani.

[Warfarin]

2 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

which is what I'm saying~ 

Bickford, Graterol, May, Victor Gonzalez, Joe Kelley (ineffective in playoffs), Baez, Alexander, Stripling, Garcia, Hudson, Cingrani.

A number of guys you are citing weren't overused, they just weren't good.  Hudson blew out his knee on a freak play.  May is a SP and blew out his arm in the same way a number of very hard throwing pitchers do.  Kelly was never really a good reliever, he just had one random good postseason and parlayed that into a nice contract.  Baez was always known to be a streaky reliever.  Stripling was a SP.  Alexander had no control and was never good.  

I don't think any of those guys, actually, are examples of pitchers who got overused and then had issues.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

16 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Scot Shields blew out his knee...  Arm was never an issue.

Mike James

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

3 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

A number of guys you are citing weren't overused, they just weren't good.  Hudson blew out his knee on a freak play.  May is a SP and blew out his arm in the same way a number of very hard throwing pitchers do.  Kelly was never really a good reliever, he just had one random good postseason and parlayed that into a nice contract.  Baez was always known to be a streaky reliever.  Stripling was a SP.  Alexander had no control and was never good.  

I don't think any of those guys, actually, are examples of pitchers who got overused and then had issues.

May at the time most of these guys were swing guys, used early, mid and late

[Second Base]

Estevez just feels like a guy you can claim off the MLB scrap heap for a half million. He throws 98 with a great slider. 

So do a lot of other guys without MLB success. 

[Erstad Grit]

1 minute ago, Second Base said:

Estevez just feels like a guy you can claim off the MLB scrap heap for a half million. He throws 98 with a great slider. 

So do a lot of other guys without MLB success. 

No not a lot of guys throw 98 with a great slider and are on the waivers.  

[Inside Pitch]

7 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Estevez just feels like a guy you can claim off the MLB scrap heap for a half million. He throws 98 with a great slider. 

So do a lot of other guys without MLB success. 

5:1 K:W rate away from CO last year.  Career BB/9 3.5.  There a bit more there than the usual hard thrower.