Is it just a foregone conclusion that 2023 is Ohtani's last with the Angels?

[VladdyforHOF]

Open up MLB.com today, I see another headline about Ohtani's FA next year. "Should the Dodgers sign Judge now or wait for Ohtani next year?"

Gross. I can already see him wearing Dodger blue. It seems like a fairy tale dream to even think he'll re-sign here at this point.

It's upsetting to have an owner that doesn't care much about winning when you have a player this talented and this determined to win on your roster. Well, not for long. And this seems like the first offseason in a long time that they are actually going for major league talent to fill positions of need (Anderson, Urshela, Renfroe) instead of trying to scoot by with AAAA players and high risk high reward comeback projects (Harvey, Syndergaard)

Too little, too late.

[WicketMaiden]

[Dtwncbad]

17 minutes ago, VladdyforHOF said:

Open up MLB.com today, I see another headline about Ohtani's FA next year. "Should the Dodgers sign Judge now or wait for Ohtani next year?"

Gross. I can already see him wearing Dodger blue. It seems like a fairy tale dream to even think he'll re-sign here at this point.

It's upsetting to have an owner that doesn't care much about winning when you have a player this talented and this determined to win on your roster. Well, not for long. And this seems like the first offseason in a long time that they are actually going for major league talent to fill positions of need (Anderson, Urshela, Renfroe) instead of trying to scoot by with AAAA players and high risk high reward comeback projects (Harvey, Syndergaard)

Too little, too late.

Relax.

A headline on mlb.com is written to get clicks.

Ohtani is the most interesting player in baseball in decades.

What would you put there to get clicks?

 

[Chuck]

Current or new ownership needs to approach Ohtani before the start of the season IMO and ask him if he'd sign an extension for $_____ and if he won't and either current or new ownership cannot afford him they really need to bring in a haul of prospects and young players ready now before the start of the season. 

That's just my take.

I hope the Angels make Ohtani an Angel for life, but if he wants to get paid and try his luck for a Championship elsewhere, you need to get a good return. 

[T.G.]

1 minute ago, Chuckster70 said:

Current or new ownership needs to approach Ohtani before the start of the season IMO and ask him if he'd sign an extension for $_____ and if he won't and either current or new ownership cannot afford him they really need to bring in a haul of prospects and young players ready now before the start of the season. 

And if he says... I'm going to wait and see if this team can win?

[Dtwncbad]

2 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Current or new ownership needs to approach Ohtani before the start of the season IMO and ask him if he'd sign an extension for $_____ and if he won't and either current or new ownership cannot afford him they really need to bring in a haul of prospects and young players ready now before the start of the season. 

That's just my take.

I hope the Angels make Ohtani and Angel for life, but if he wants to get paid and try his luck for a Championship elsewhere, you need to get a good return. 

I would say if a prospective owner can’t afford to give Ohtani a number that keeps him, then they don’t have the correct buyer.

[Chuck]

Just now, T.G. said:

And if he says... I'm going to wait and see if this team can win?

I guess all you can do is roll the dice then and if the team sucks at the trade deadline get as much as possible from a contending MLB team. 

[Chuck]

Just now, Dtwncbad said:

I would say if a prospective owner can’t afford to give Ohtani a number that keeps him, then they don’t have the correct buyer.

100%

[Torridd]

4 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Current or new ownership needs to approach Ohtani before the start of the season IMO and ask him if he'd sign an extension for $_____ and if he won't and either current or new ownership cannot afford him they really need to bring in a haul of prospects and young players ready now before the start of the season. 

That's just my take.

I hope the Angels make Ohtani and Angel for life, but if he wants to get paid and try his luck for a Championship elsewhere, you need to get a good return. 

I totally agree, Chuck.

[Torridd]

3 minutes ago, T.G. said:

And if he says... I'm going to wait and see if this team can win?

Isn't that kind of a wishy washy answer? I mean, what if we get a free agent SS, another starter and shore up the relief? I think those moves show incredibly good faith. If he's going to say something like that, I think he should at least have an opinion on what the organization should do to "win." 

[BTH]

To answer your question, no it is not a foregone conclusion that 2023 is Ohtani's last season with the Angels.

Now, I'd say it's more likely than not, but a lot can change in the next 6-10 months.

If the Angels are contending, make the playoffs, and finalize a sale to a committed owner who will pay Ohtani whatever it takes, it's easy to see why he'd stay.

Something I think people always forget is that he picked the Angels in the first place. He clearly liked Anaheim and wanted to be here, otherwise, he wouldn't have signed here in the first place. So if the Angels start to win and spend money under new ownership, I think he stays.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Trendon

[ten ocho recon scout]

22 minutes ago, T.G. said:

And if he says... I'm going to wait and see if this team can win?

Or if Ippei screws up the translation, and we either lose or overpay him based on something that doesn't translate well to English.

"Playing for the Angels was like doing life." - Ohtani

"He wants to be an Angel for life!" - Ippei, trying his best

[VladdyforHOF]

2 minutes ago, Trendon said:

To answer your question, not it is not a foregone conclusion that 2023 is Ohtani's last season with the Angels.

Now, I'd say it's more likely than not, but a lot can change in the next 6-10 months.

If the Angels are contending, make the playoffs, and finalize a sale to a committed owner who will pay Ohtani whatever it takes, it's easy to see why he'd stay.

Something I think people always forget is that he picked the Angels in the first place. He clearly liked Anaheim and wanted to be here, otherwise, he wouldn't have signed here in the first place. So if the Angels start to win and spend money under new ownership, I think he stays.

He did pick the Angels indeed. Maybe his dream was to play for a winning org but mostly stay out of the spotlight. I think when you are just breaking into MLB it's good to be humble. But now that he's turned out to be a baseball phenomenon, I think his mindset has changed. He's made comments to the media that indicate he will not stay here if they don't show they can win. Well, I don't think he said those things when he was a rookie. Now he probably sees himself as too good to play for this team and he kinda has a point.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Personally, I think he's gone. (And I was one of the loudest on here saying Trout was staying).

That said, I think people are picking the Dodgers because it's the laziest pick. They're great, and have money. And he can stay here in SoCal.

I have a bad feeling about Seattle, and the Mets personally. Kind of hoping it's the Pads (if not us).

[BTH]

16 minutes ago, VladdyforHOF said:

He did pick the Angels indeed. Maybe his dream was to play for a winning org but mostly stay out of the spotlight. I think when you are just breaking into MLB it's good to be humble. But now that he's turned out to be a baseball phenomenon, I think his mindset has changed. He's made comments to the media that indicate he will not stay here if they don't show they can win. Well, I don't think he said those things when he was a rookie. Now he probably sees himself as too good to play for this team and he kinda has a point.

Which is why I said that he'll likely stay IF they can prove they can win this season and new ownership shows commitment to winning.

[Angels 1961]

If you were Ohtani, the most talented player ever to play this game would you not test FA. Remember Angels have had 7 straight losing seasons. 

[VladdyforHOF]

If he's waiting to see if the team can win first... well, we may run out of time there. The answer to that question has been no, still is no, and remains no until proven otherwise. And come the point when it's proven otherwise, it'll be too late, as this is the end of his contract. We may lose, he will leave. We may win, and he may still leave. At the end of the day we're getting nothing back if he leaves. There's a ton that needs to change for this team to become a winner in one season. Is this going to be the "win for Ohtani" year? Are we really doing that? That's a huge roll of the dice.

They ready to let Ohtani go for nothing besides a QO comp pick? Trading him this offseason is the only smart thing to do.

[stormngt]

53 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Current or new ownership needs to approach Ohtani before the start of the season IMO and ask him if he'd sign an extension for $_____ and if he won't and either current or new ownership cannot afford him they really need to bring in a haul of prospects and young players ready now before the start of the season. 

That's just my take.

I hope the Angels make Ohtani and Angel for life, but if he wants to get paid and try his luck for a Championship elsewhere, you need to get a good return. 

New owner needs to pay him.  My concern is if Ohtani doesn't want to stay regardless of salary

[VladdyforHOF]

4 minutes ago, stormngt said:

New owner needs to pay him.  My concern is if Ohtani doesn't want to stay regardless of salary

Yeah this. And yet I get the sense that most fans are in favor of not trading him so they can roll the dice and they think this team is going to come back completely different next year and just crush everyone. I don't understand wanting to take that risk.

We're lucky we ever got our hands on Ohtani to begin with, now let's just be smart about this thing and get some value back. Houston just got Jose Abreu. We are still a long ways away.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

I would say if a prospective owner can’t afford to give Ohtani a number that keeps him, then they don’t have the correct buyer.

I don't believe that it is a matter of affording it. If Ohtani values winning and he believes that the Angels will continue to lose, he's gone regardless of the offer.

My own opinion is that his time here is done after 2023. He likely believes that the club has had ample time to put together a winner if it were going to happen. Much of this year's club didn't even belong in the majors.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Vegas Halo Fan

[DCAngelsFan]

I don't think his ego is served by "Look at me, look at me, I got the biggest AAV contract in MLB history!"  That's not (imo) who he is.  

Is he comfortable / happy playing for the Angels, and living in Southern California?  

Going to an already-winning team would feel less rewarding than winning with the team he started with deep into the playoffs.

He can get the money from anyone - so, he probably already know what it would take to stay (if anything could).  Besides money, what could be done?  Is it competitiveness?  Is it better snacks in the dugout?  

I've always been a really big fan of just asking him.   What would it take to make you stay?  Would you prefer to be traded to a contender?  (assuming we won't be a contender)

I think that's the big catch - I think he'd stay if we were contending and we offered whatever amount of money he asked for But to be competitive, we need to go all in (Arte has had that opportunity multiple times and passed) - will the new ownership have a say in *this* off-season?

 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

5 minutes ago, DCAngelsFan said:

...will the new ownership have a say in *this* off-season?

This is the biggest unknown. If the Angels sit on the sidelines while free agency and the winter trade season play out, that pretty much kills any chance of Ohtani staying, IMO. Adding Urshela and Renfroe are definitely good moves, but this club was more than two players away from being a contender.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Vegas Halo Fan

[angelsnationtalk]

Let the rumored Japanese group purchase the Angels and get Ohtani to the playoffs this year. 

I'm sure he'd stay. At this point you can't let him walk. 

[Pancake Bear]

No, it is not a foregone conclusion. Like Trendon said, he picked Anaheim. I think he clearly wants to be on the west coast. Having a DH was probably a factor. But he picked us over Seattle. Ohtani also seems like the loyal type. I think his preference would be to stay *if* the money makes sense and we're committed to competing.

I read somewhere his agent said they didn't want to talk an extension until a new owner is settled. Since Ohtani is one of the biggest assets the Angels possess, the sale really needs to be expedited. I think they're trying to get through it quickly, but it sounds like there are multiple interested parties, which could slow it down a bit. The uncertainty is what is killing us, though. That said, I like our chances to bring him back even post 2023 in free agency if we're not a disaster on the field this year. 

[VladdyforHOF]

3 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

This is the biggest unknown. If the Angels sit on the sidelines while free agency and the winter trade season play out, that pretty much kills any chance of Ohtani staying, IMO. Adding Urshela and Renfroe are definitely good moves, but this club was more than two players away from being a contender.

Yeah agreed. I get that it's not an easy thing to trade your superstar. But 2023 is the last chance and that's an insane risk. Sometimes you see teams hold on to that highly coveted to-be FA in their contract year and they very well know that player might walk away. But they let it happen because they're going "all in" to win the chip.

Sorry, this roster as currently constructed - even with the new additions that I am very fond of don't get me wrong - is not a contender. And I don't know why anyone else would feel it's a contender. So it doesn't make sense to go "all-in" with Ohtani and make it a "win for Ohtani" year.
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