Is it just a foregone conclusion that 2023 is Ohtani's last with the Angels?

[Swordsman78]

5 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Padres are my other team. 

My condolences

[Second Base]

8 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

My condolences

[Angels 1961]

32 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

My condolences

My other team is one playing Doyers

[Pancake Bear]

2 hours ago, Second Base said:

He's gone regardless, in my opinion. He wants to win. Even if the Angels won in 2023, is their farm particularly strong? Do they have a history of winning? Are any of these people that made him want to sign with the Angels in the first place still here? 

Ohtani is headed to the Mets. 

Not sure how much clearer Ohtani could have been when he came over. He doesn't want to play on the east coast. if he moves on, it'll be one of the Dodgers, Mariners, Giants, or Padres he would be interested in signing with. No doubt his agent would deny any such preference, and if the Angels trade him, they aren't likely to restrict trade partners to the west coast, but if he signs elsewhere it's highly unlikely he goes east. 

[Warfarin]

8 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

Not sure how much clearer Ohtani could have been when he came over. He doesn't want to play on the east coast. if he moves on, it'll be one of the Dodgers, Mariners, Giants, or Padres he would be interested in signing with. No doubt his agent would deny any such preference, and if the Angels trade him, they aren't likely to restrict trade partners to the west coast, but if he signs elsewhere it's highly unlikely he goes east. 

Yup.  I mean things can change over time, but I remember his key destinations were all on the west coast.  The Dodgers were considered a favorite at the time, but since there was no DH back then, they could not offer him what he wanted.

He will get a lot of money, but just a feeling that I get with him is he won't necessarily go to the highest bidder - he will pick a west coast team that offers a strong chance to win.  If he does not stay with us, I think you nicely outlined all the possible options for him, although I suspect the Padres can't really afford him by then, so - Dodgers, Mariners, Giants.  

[floplag]

12 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

Not sure how much clearer Ohtani could have been when he came over. He doesn't want to play on the east coast. if he moves on, it'll be one of the Dodgers, Mariners, Giants, or Padres he would be interested in signing with. No doubt his agent would deny any such preference, and if the Angels trade him, they aren't likely to restrict trade partners to the west coast, but if he signs elsewhere it's highly unlikely he goes east. 

Exactly.. did we really do anything to win him or were we just the only team that could offer what he wanted where he wanted to be?
We lost that advantage, everyone is fair game now, if the truth is he would have preferred the Dodgers all along there is little if anything we can do. 
Now thats pure speculation of course, but if he wont sign an extension, youve got to consider trading him.. to lose him for nothing is gross incompetence.

[Pancake Bear]

7 hours ago, Warfarin said:

Yup.  I mean things can change over time, but I remember his key destinations were all on the west coast.  The Dodgers were considered a favorite at the time, but since there was no DH back then, they could not offer him what he wanted.

He will get a lot of money, but just a feeling that I get with him is he won't necessarily go to the highest bidder - he will pick a west coast team that offers a strong chance to win.  If he does not stay with us, I think you nicely outlined all the possible options for him, although I suspect the Padres can't really afford him by then, so - Dodgers, Mariners, Giants.  

Yeah, I think the Padres would be a tough sell. They've spent big on Machado and Tatis and just traded for Soto. Dodgers have the money and interest, no doubt. Depending on how much SF and Seattle spend this offseason, they'd be legit contenders as well.

[Pancake Bear]

Ohtani returning to the Angels depends on several things, imo. Obviously the new owner will matter, as well as what Ohtani thinks of Minasian and the coaches. I don't think Ohtani is all about the money or he wouldn't have come over to MLB when he did. He had a golden ticket with his team to come over any time and he chose to come over early and forego the extra money he could've made to enter the league on a rookie deal. I also think Ohtani has a certain level of loyalty to his teammates - I don't think he's just all about himself - which could give us a slight edge, all else being equal. The real question is how much he values winning and whether he thinks the Angels can win. The one quote attributed to him, "I want to win. That's the biggest thing for me. I"ll leave it at that." would seem to indicate that's the only thing that matters. But if that's the case, I don't know why he would've chosen the Angels in the first place. Let's face it, Trout said the same things for several years and ended up re-signing. So, I won't be shocked if he comes back and I won't be shocked if he leaves. I just hope the sale gets finalzied quickly since his agent said they don't want to do an extension until they know who the new owner(s) will be.

[Jason]

7 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

Ohtani returning to the Angels depends on several things, imo. Obviously the new owner will matter, as well as what Ohtani thinks of Minasian and the coaches. I don't think Ohtani is all about the money or he wouldn't have come over to MLB when he did. He had a golden ticket with his team to come over any time and he chose to come over early and forego the extra money he could've made to enter the league on a rookie deal. I also think Ohtani has a certain level of loyalty to his teammates - I don't think he's just all about himself - which could give us a slight edge, all else being equal. The real question is how much he values winning and whether he thinks the Angels can win. The one quote attributed to him, "I want to win. That's the biggest thing for me. I"ll leave it at that." would seem to indicate that's the only thing that matters. But if that's the case, I don't know why he would've chosen the Angels in the first place. Let's face it, Trout said the same things for several years and ended up re-signing. So, I won't be shocked if he comes back and I won't be shocked if he leaves. I just hope the sale gets finalzied quickly since his agent said they don't want to do an extension until they know who the new owner(s) will be.

The moves Perry makes this off-season are part of their strategy in resigning Ohtani 

[Warfarin]

7 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

Ohtani returning to the Angels depends on several things, imo. Obviously the new owner will matter, as well as what Ohtani thinks of Minasian and the coaches. I don't think Ohtani is all about the money or he wouldn't have come over to MLB when he did. He had a golden ticket with his team to come over any time and he chose to come over early and forego the extra money he could've made to enter the league on a rookie deal. I also think Ohtani has a certain level of loyalty to his teammates - I don't think he's just all about himself - which could give us a slight edge, all else being equal. The real question is how much he values winning and whether he thinks the Angels can win. The one quote attributed to him, "I want to win. That's the biggest thing for me. I"ll leave it at that." would seem to indicate that's the only thing that matters. But if that's the case, I don't know why he would've chosen the Angels in the first place. Let's face it, Trout said the same things for several years and ended up re-signing. So, I won't be shocked if he comes back and I won't be shocked if he leaves. I just hope the sale gets finalzied quickly since his agent said they don't want to do an extension until they know who the new owner(s) will be.

It has been awhile, but from what I recall, Ohtani wanted several things:

1.  To win

2.  To play on the west coast

3.  To both pitch and hit

At the time, that wiped out most teams (no DH in NL at the time, and only a few AL franchises on the west coast).  So it was either Angels, the A's, or the Mariners.  The A's were a non-factor, and the Angels did seem like the more appealing team at the time in comparison to the Mariners.

[yuzusho]

6 hours ago, Warfarin said:

It has been awhile, but from what I recall, Ohtani wanted several things:

1.  To win

2.  To play on the west coast

3.  To both pitch and hit

At the time, that wiped out most teams (no DH in NL at the time, and only a few AL franchises on the west coast).  So it was either Angels, the A's, or the Mariners.  The A's were a non-factor, and the Angels did seem like the more appealing team at the time in comparison to the Mariners.

Also can crossed out Mariners then bc from several sources it has been said he didn’t want to play on a team that has an established Japanese player already 

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, yuzusho said:

Also can crossed out Mariners then bc from several sources it has been said he didn’t want to play on a team that has an established Japanese player already 

I heard that one, although I am not sure how true that ultimately was.  But I guess, maybe?

All that said though, I am assuming most of the west coast teams would be in play this time, although obviously not the A's and, probably due to financial reasons, the Padres.  So - Angels, Dodgers, Giants, Mariners.  

[Swordsman78]

The new owners very likely would like to make a splash with the fans.

Don't be surprised if at the press conference introducing the new owners, that the 2nd thing the new owner(s) says is that they signed Ohtani to a mega deal. 

[floplag]

19 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

Ohtani returning to the Angels depends on several things, imo. Obviously the new owner will matter, as well as what Ohtani thinks of Minasian and the coaches. I don't think Ohtani is all about the money or he wouldn't have come over to MLB when he did. He had a golden ticket with his team to come over any time and he chose to come over early and forego the extra money he could've made to enter the league on a rookie deal. I also think Ohtani has a certain level of loyalty to his teammates - I don't think he's just all about himself - which could give us a slight edge, all else being equal. The real question is how much he values winning and whether he thinks the Angels can win. The one quote attributed to him, "I want to win. That's the biggest thing for me. I"ll leave it at that." would seem to indicate that's the only thing that matters. But if that's the case, I don't know why he would've chosen the Angels in the first place. Let's face it, Trout said the same things for several years and ended up re-signing. So, I won't be shocked if he comes back and I won't be shocked if he leaves. I just hope the sale gets finalzied quickly since his agent said they don't want to do an extension until they know who the new owner(s) will be.

So much we dont know, but, lets go back to why he signed with us in the first place, we had a huge advantage, we were the only club that could offer him what he wanted in terms of his role as a 2 way player, in the SoCal market. 
So did we do anything to win him or were we just the choice that fit his needs? 
If the universal DH was a thing back then would he have signed here at all?
That advantage is gone, anyone can now give him that same role.
I want to extend and keep him i truly do, but for me this is so simple... if he wont extend, you deal him, period.  Just like you would any other player that has his kind of value. 
The Dodgers could offer a monster package, and are also looking at guys like Rengifo on the open market, there is a super easy fit there and they can afford to make that deal both in prospects and money.
WE would be fools to not at least consider it. 
 

[Angels 1961]

14 minutes ago, floplag said:

So much we dont know, but, lets go back to why he signed with us in the first place, we had a huge advantage, we were the only club that could offer him what he wanted in terms of his role as a 2 way player, in the SoCal market. 
So did we do anything to win him or were we just the choice that fit his needs? 
If the universal DH was a thing back then would he have signed here at all?
That advantage is gone, anyone can now give him that same role.
I want to extend and keep him i truly do, but for me this is so simple... if he wont extend, you deal him, period.  Just like you would any other player that has his kind of value. 
The Dodgers could offer a monster package, and are also looking at guys like Rengifo on the open market, there is a super easy fit there and they can afford to make that deal both in prospects and money.
WE would be fools to not at least consider it. 
 

I agree, after 2023 he could be gone and get nothing. 

[stormngt]

On 11/30/2022 at 8:52 PM, Pancake Bear said:

Not sure how much clearer Ohtani could have been when he came over. He doesn't want to play on the east coast. if he moves on, it'll be one of the Dodgers, Mariners, Giants, or Padres he would be interested in signing with. No doubt his agent would deny any such preference, and if the Angels trade him, they aren't likely to restrict trade partners to the west coast, but if he signs elsewhere it's highly unlikely he goes east. 

People do change their minds over time

[floplag]

2 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

I agree, after 2023 he could be gone and get nothing. 

Which is the crux of the problem, that cant be allowed. 
You dont give up the golden ticket, for nothing.  As an org weve been so incompetent at so many things for so long, this isnt one we can afford to miss.
Extend him, or trade him... letting him walk for nothing, would be the largest mistake we may ever make as an org since losing Ryan.
They extended Trout right about this time, history need to repeat, or he must be dealt. 
Just my opinion but i feel strongly this is what should happen.  You cant bank on an if.

[Stradling]

I think if it was a foregone conclusion, he would be traded this week at the winter meetings. 

[Angels 1961]

12 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I think if it was a foregone conclusion, he would be traded this week at the winter meetings. 

Could a blockbuster trade with Ohtani be coming? Save 30 mill this year sign another pitcher and top SS. Would this be a good way to go? Especially if Ohtani is leaving after 2023. Players in trade another pitcher and top SS if we trade Sho. Would Angels be a better team in 2023 and beyond? Free DH for Trout and Rendon plus others. Take a chance and get nothing for him, what would you do?