Should we muse about trading Ohtani?

[UndertheHalo]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

If you trade or lose Ohtani, you're going to lose a ton of the fanbase and attendance will drop significantly. 

I just can't seem to wrap my head around losing this guy, even if a truckload of talent was headed our way.

It was same with trout - the Angel lose no matter what if they end up having to trade him.  How are you supposed to trade this guy. ? No team is going to give up actual value.  That’s just considering the baseball side of it.  The other stuff you noted, the eyes he brings, the merchandise etc.  that’s off the charts.  There’s no replacing him.  Anyway they gotta figure it out this off season. 

Edited June 30, 2022 by UndertheHalo

[Revad]

39 minutes ago, failos said:

He couldn’t stop Trout from walking, but he still got him to re-sign. I don’t see why Shohei would be an exception. Arte just actually has to make good on his commitment to winning.

And to do this he needs to increase payroll.  This is one of those “spend money to make money” circumstances.

[full circle]

2 hours ago, failos said:

He did fine re-signing Trout, no? 

That’s not the discussion.  The discussion is about putting a winning product on the field.  He has failed miserably.  

[Angels 1961]

3 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

The Angels would have to be completely blown away with talent to trade Ohtani this season or even lose him for the entire 2023 campaign IMO. 

If he does not sign extension, you cannot let him walk and get nothing. Angels cannot let this be hanging over them in 2023. Halos will have so many needs for 2023. Bullpen, starting pitcher, SS, 2B, OF after 7 losing seasons what is going to change?

[full circle]

Obviously the ideal scenario is re-signing Ohtani and putting together a winning team.  What are the odds that’s possible with a shit developmental staff and Moreno never really willing to go over his yearly payroll?  I don’t think those odds are good.  It’s far more likely based on the evidence that a re-sign ties up payroll and we’re stuck in mediocrity another half decade or so.  

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

Yep, the guy is TWO borderline superstars wrapped up in ONE player.

Yep....  Just get to winning.  And he's on the right side of 30.

[Inside Pitch]

4 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Are talking about C.J. Abrams or Esteury Ruiz? If Ohtani gave us indication that he wouldn't sign an extension I would do trade him for Abrams, Gore and Ruiz. But that's probably about it. Maybe add Morejon to the deal just because. 

That's about the only deal I think MIGHT come close to actually showing a return and mostly because Gore is that good.

But Gore being that good is likely why they wouldn't part with him and as AJ said, teams never win by losing a superstar.

[cysomeawfulpitcher]

[Brandon]

8 hours ago, Taylor said:

One of my favorite bass lines to play

 

[Dtwncbad]

1 hour ago, Angels 1961 said:

If he does not sign extension, you cannot let him walk and get nothing. Angels cannot let this be hanging over them in 2023. Halos will have so many needs for 2023. Bullpen, starting pitcher, SS, 2B, OF after 7 losing seasons what is going to change?

[Torridd]

3 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

If you trade or lose Ohtani, you're going to lose a ton of the fanbase and attendance will drop significantly. 

I just can't seem to wrap my head around losing this guy, even if a truckload of talent was headed our way.

I don't know about that, Chuck. The general fanbase wants the team to win and if the team improves based on the trade, I think the fans will adjust quickly.

[HeavenlyHalos]

If you don't resign him in the offseason, you try to do it the following offseason when he's a FA. You only trade him if he requests it or he says he's not resigning here. You'd have to replace an Ace and a power hitter behind Trout which is incredibly difficult to do. Plus, like others have said, you probably don't get a ton of value back for him. Have to resign him if it's an option and yes, Arte needs to stop penny pinching and go into the luxury tax for the "right player" like he said he would. If the right player is not Ohtani, who the hell is?

[Slegnaac]

Winning every freaking game that Ohtani starts as the Pitcher would help as well.

[Jeff Fletcher]

8 hours ago, greginpsca said:

So it isn't about winning, but all about money?

That’s not what his post said at all. 

[Dtwncbad]

7 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

That’s not what his post said at all. 

Some fans can’t think clearly when they basically have Fan Munchausen Syndrome.

They love the attention they get from falsely and irrationally diagnosing someone terrible about their “baby” (favorite team).

Edited June 30, 2022 by Dtwncbad

[Stradling]

We as fans have this bad habit of focusing on things that are just kind of dumb.  For example, for whatever reason we believe that Shohei is going to leave because “he wants to win”.  Sure he has said he wants to win.  The only person that had the balls to say he wants the most money was Greinke.  Every single player wants to win.  Shohei isn’t unique in this opinion.  Arte will pay him and he will stay.

[Dtwncbad]

10 hours ago, Torridd said:

I don't know about that, Chuck. The general fanbase wants the team to win and if the team improves based on the trade, I think the fans will adjust quickly.

I am not sure I agree on what is true of the “general fan base.”  I suspect most fans obviously want to win, but I also think most fans would have little chance of being able to recognize the value of whatever return the Angels got in a trade for such a megastar like Ohtani.

Remember that what makes someone a megastar is that there are tons of people who know the megastar but probably don’t know much about the less famous players.  That is a recipe for them not being able to recognize the value of the return.

[Jeff Fletcher]

4 hours ago, Stradling said:

We as fans have this bad habit of focusing on things that are just kind of dumb.  For example, for whatever reason we believe that Shohei is going to leave because “he wants to win”.  Sure he has said he wants to win.  The only person that had the balls to say he wants the most money was Greinke.  Every single player wants to win.  Shohei isn’t unique in this opinion.  Arte will pay him and he will stay.

Every player wants to win. 
 

Yet they don’t all sign with the Yankees or Dodgers, so they must also like money, a comfortable environment, good schools for their kids () and money. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

Here’s the thing: the assumption that the Angels can be better by trading Ohtani depends on

a) making good evaluations of the young players they get in return. 
b) making good decisions on how they spend the money freed up by not paying Ohtani.

So I would not be so sure of hitting on both of those to be worth the certain negative of trading away a super star.

[Stradling]

Am I the only one that gets nervous when I see that Fletch has quoted one of my posts?

[Jeff Fletcher]

34 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Am I the only one that gets nervous when I see that Fletch has quoted one of my posts?

Now I’m gonna do it all the time. 

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Here’s the thing: the assumption that the Angels can be better by trading Ohtani depends on

a) making good evaluations of the young players they get in return. 
b) making good decisions on how they spend the money freed up by not paying Ohtani.

So I would not be so sure of hitting on both of those to be worth the certain negative of trading away a super star.

I think Ohtani is most talented player ever to play this game. He is an ace pitcher plus middle of order bat that provides protection for Trout. Biggest question for me is does he want to stay with Angels? Ohtani may just want to test the free agent market. If he wants to do that Angels just cannot afford to let him walk or have this hanging over their heads in 2023. Even signing Ohtani to a massive deal halos would still have many needs to fill. Arte Moreno in a tough spot. 

[Stradling]

56 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Now I’m gonna do it all the time. 

You son of a…

[IheartLA]

I forget the source but you could probably google it somewhere, a few years back fangraphs or somebody did an article how almost every single top free agent if they weren’t signed to an extension before they hit free agency switched teams. 
I forget the cutoff if it was $100M+ contracts but it was something crazy high % of free agents didn’t resign with their original team if they made it to free agency. 
 

Last year the top 15 free agent contracts switched teams. 
 

IF Ohtani makes it to free agency it will be a Gerrit Cole situation where one or multiple teams will have a higher $ amount on the table. So it will be a situation where he takes less money to stay. If Ohtani is gonna be an Angel for the rest of his career I think we will need an extension this off-season.

[ThisismineScios]

I think Ohtani really wants to stay. He’s not going to leave if he thinks the Angels are decent l and the Mets or Mariners, for example, are better contenders. If he sees the arrow as pointing up, why wouldn’t he want to stay in the county, area, and organization that he had become a man in? Also the Angels have given him a lot of freedom and success. I think things would have to be really bad for him to not want to stay.