Should we muse about trading Ohtani?

[Angels 1961]

2 hours ago, failos said:

Good grief. This shit needs to end.

Yeah, Rendon will be back at 100%. Seven straight losing seasons with same needs this off season. It's 4th down it's time to PUNT.

[Chuck]

54 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

If it comes down to needing to trade him then pray for the Padres to come up JUST short of the Dodgers again because they have shown a willingness to move parts to win now.  They are in SoCal, they have McKenzie Gore and a minor league SS that would be about as good a return as the Angels could possibly get for Ohtani but mostly the Angels need to win and give him a reason to want to stick around.

Are talking about C.J. Abrams or Esteury Ruiz? If Ohtani gave us indication that he wouldn't sign an extension I would do trade him for Abrams, Gore and Ruiz. But that's probably about it. Maybe add Morejon to the deal just because. 

 

[Torridd]

4 hours ago, DMVol said:

I don't think it's about fans being patient that management can get the right personnel around him.  It's about can Ohtani be patient and wait?  My guess is no and he isn't going to sign an extension....

So if he's okay with staying, would you rather keep him?

[failos]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Are your referring to the 2022 season? If so, I agree 

No, the trade Ohtani and/or Trout shit needs to stop. Obviously, if Shohei doesn’t want to be here anymore then you gotta bite the bullet, but he comes off as extremely loyal to the organization. Arte just needs to stop pussyfooting with the luxury tax and start spending on quality so Ohtani doesn’t bail after next season.

This team will become an even bigger laughingstock if Ohtani is traded. It’ll be like when the Red Sox traded Ruth. 

[failos]

38 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Yeah, Rendon will be back at 100%. Seven straight losing seasons with same needs this off season. It's 4th down it's time to PUNT.

Yeah, ok pal. Punting isn’t part of my vocabulary. F off with the quitter talk.

[Slegnaac]

1 minute ago, failos said:

No, the trade Ohtani and/or Trout shit needs to stop. Obviously, if Shohei doesn’t want to be here anymore then you gotta bite the bullet, but he comes off as extremely loyal to the organization. Arte just needs to stop pussyfooting with the luxury tax and start spending on quality so Ohtani doesn’t bail after next season.

This team will become an even bigger laughingstock if Ohtani is traded. It’ll be like when the Red Sox traded Ruth. 

The question really is what provides the biggest bottom line to Artie. 

1. Pay Ohtani $50M per year for 7 years starting in 2024.

2. Trade Ohtani before the end of 2023 for other player(s) plus potentially cash considerations. 

3. Get as much value out of Ohtani as possible through the end of 2023.

What brings the best bottom line result?

[failos]

5 minutes ago, Slegnaac said:

The question really is what provides the biggest bottom line to Artie. 

1. Pay Ohtani $50M per year for 7 years starting in 2024.

2. Trade Ohtani before the end of 2023 for other player(s) plus potentially cash considerations. 

3. Get as much value out of Ohtani as possible through the end of 2023.

What brings the best bottom line result?

3 potentially gets you 1, assuming Arte decides to go over the luxury tax. Either way re-signing Ohtani is priority #1. Arte isn’t going to let a marketing goldmine like Shohei walk away/get traded. It’s just not going to happen.

[full circle]

Given that the Angels are abysmal failures WITH both Ohtani and Trout, entertaining the idea doesn’t seem so stupid as some are trying to make it look.  

[full circle]

7 minutes ago, failos said:

3 potentially gets you 1, assuming Arte decides to go over the luxury tax. Either way re-signing Ohtani is priority #1. Arte isn’t going to let a marketing goldmine like Shohei walk away/get traded. It’s just not going to happen.

Arte hasn’t really proven to make the wisest decisions now has he?

[Angel Oracle]

8 minutes ago, full circle said:

Given that the Angels are abysmal failures WITH both Ohtani and Trout, entertaining the idea doesn’t seem so stupid as some are trying to make it look.  

Except if the return is like what the Marlins got for Cabrera

[greginpsca]

2 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Except if the return is like what the Marlins got for Cabrera

Who in the Cabrera trade worked out for the Marlins?

[ThisismineScios]

I come on here to rant about how irritated I am with the Angels. But they are not trading Ohtani. At this point it's clearly more about if he wants to stay, not if they're willing to pay him. He wants to see (like Trout did) that the team is on track. And for all the frustrations with this year, the team lost 14 games in a row...and that's why they are where they are. They have major holes but they are at least an average team, potentially above. The team will do everything in their power to keep him because you simply do not trade talent like that. You convince them to stay by whatever means necessary. He's currently our best pitcher, one of the best in the AL, and our second best hitter. Trading him only makes you better if you trade him for 3 top 100 prospects that are young and exceed current expectations and develop into All-Star caliber players. Otherwise, you have an All Star caliber pitcher and a borderline All Star hitter in Ohtani. Give up the "sell high" nonsense. 

[Chuck]

The Angels would have to be completely blown away with talent to trade Ohtani this season or even lose him for the entire 2023 campaign IMO. 

[Angel Oracle]

22 minutes ago, greginpsca said:

Who in the Cabrera trade worked out for the Marlins?

No one, hence why I referred to it.

Only Andrew Miller became a solid MLB player, and that was for other teams. Maybin was the only other one who had any kind of MLB career.

[Angel Oracle]

Trade or let him walk, and it’s Babe Ruth all over again.

[Ender]

26 minutes ago, greginpsca said:

Who in the Cabrera trade worked out for the Marlins?

Yeah that's easily one of the most lopsided trades in baseball history. I would hope no GM is that stupid today. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

4 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

As people have mentioned, teams rarely get adequate returns on mega-stars like Ohtani. Trading him is a desperation move that implies: 1) You don't think you can (or want to) re-sign him, and 2) You don't plan on contending in the near future, and would rather get something than nothing for him, regardless of the fallout to players and fans.

As for the 2nd point, regardless of what we think, I don't think the Angels are giving up on contention in the near future. Ohtani would be a big part of that. As of this writing, he's 8th in the majors in total WAR (3.6) and moving up the list (he was out of the top 30 a couple weeks ago).

Trading him only makes sense if 1) There's little to no chance of contending in the near future, and 2) You are certain that you can get a good return.

I don't think either is true, so the Angels won't trade him. And this aside from PR (what it says to the other players, especially Trout) and economic elements (he's a huge cash draw).

Exactly all of this 

[failos]

51 minutes ago, full circle said:

Arte hasn’t really proven to make the wisest decisions now has he?

He did fine re-signing Trout, no? 

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, failos said:

Yeah, ok pal. Punting isn’t part of my vocabulary. F off with the quitter talk.

So, you let him walk and get nothing? How much do you give him? If he does not sign this off season, what do you do? Seven losing seasons what do you do this off season? Time to rebuild halos need a new direction. Again, I ask what would you do?

[DMVol]

1 hour ago, Torridd said:

So if he's okay with staying, would you rather keep him?

Yes, I think so….it will certainly limit what you can do…huge chunk of the payroll would go to Trout, Rendon and Ohtani…but if you can sign him, I think you have to and try to make the budget work….hope we now have enough pitching depth in the minors to get us through (not sure I believe that but just not sure we can let him get away either)…

[greginpsca]

54 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Exactly all of this 

So it isn't about winning, but all about money?

[Chuck]

If you trade or lose Ohtani, you're going to lose a ton of the fanbase and attendance will drop significantly. 

I just can't seem to wrap my head around losing this guy, even if a truckload of talent was headed our way.

[Angel Oracle]

Yep, the guy is TWO borderline superstars wrapped up in ONE player.

[Slegnaac]

2 hours ago, failos said:

3 potentially gets you 1, assuming Arte decides to go over the luxury tax. Either way re-signing Ohtani is priority #1. Arte isn’t going to let a marketing goldmine like Shohei walk away/get traded. It’s just not going to happen.

Sadly Artie cannot stop Shohei from walking.  Just like he cannot make any FA sign with the Angels.

[failos]

19 minutes ago, Slegnaac said:

Sadly Artie cannot stop Shohei from walking.  Just like he cannot make any FA sign with the Angels.

He couldn’t stop Trout from walking, but he still got him to re-sign. I don’t see why Shohei would be an exception. Arte just actually has to make good on his commitment to winning.