Underrated Players

[Jeff Fletcher]

Johan Santana is one of those guys who was on the track for being a first ballot HOFer before injuries got to him. He still managed about 12 years and had a great peak. He was one of those guys you felt was an automatic win when he pitched. 

[Adam]

Mark Grundbnfheskfmgghdkdlsklaik

[Angelsjunky]

22 hours ago, Tank said:

who do you think should have won the MVP the two years he won it?

Well, start with the fact that in 1996, his first MVP season, he had 3.5 WAR, while both Griffey and A-Rod had over 9 WAR. It was a classic case of splitting the vote by team-mates, as both A-Rod and Griffey were on the Mariners. Gonzalez got 290 vote points, A-Rod 287, and Griffey 188. Gonzalez's 3.5 WAR was 31st in the AL. Even if you focus on hitting, his 141 wRC+ was 12th in the AL.

So in 1996, there are a ton of players more deserving: A Rod, Griffey, McGwire, Frank Thomas, Edgar, Thome, Brady Anderson, Knoblauch, even Mo Vaughn. Probably a bunch of others. But Ribbies!

1998 isn't quite as bad, although Gonzalez is still all the way down at 16th in AL WAR and 8th in wRC+. There are still half a dozen guys who were clearly better, including his teammate, Pudge. But again, Ribbies!

Now there was no WAR back then, or at least only among basement-dwelling statnerds. But even so, I vaguely remember the more statistical minded seeing both as bad choices. There's no way Gonzalez wins either award in today's era.

[Kthursby]

Jim Fregosi. Best remembered now as the trade for Nolan Ryan or his stint as manager, but he was a stud at shortstop in those early years. 

[Blarg]

On 1/18/2022 at 12:46 AM, Angelsjunky said:

Pedro Guerrero: Didn't have the longevity or health for the Hall, but he was a great hitter for about a decade, and one of the best hitters of the 80s. His 181 wRC+ in 1985 was the fourth highest of the 80s.

I remember going to a Dodgers game in the 80's and Pedro was playing third base. A ball hit hard down the line and Pedro was so slow it was well into the outfield grass before he reacted. He was an infield road cone making Trumbo look like Brooks Robinson. 

[Chuck]

Good names here! 

 

[Tank]

Torii Hunter. He could cover a lot of ground in CF, had a good bat, and was just fun personified.

[AngelStew43]

[happybat4]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

Good names here! 

 

No way Disarcina was underrated. Maybe overrated.

[James]

Trent Durrington

[Lou]

6 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

What IF...his last name was actually Jackson?

 

lol 

Thank you.

[Blarg]

2 hours ago, AngelStew43 said:

The Angels retired his number so he did get the recognition he deserved. 

[Angelsjunky]

Kyle Kubitza

[Angelsjunky]

Zach Borenstein.

Right, @Second Base?

[Taylor]

Orlando Palmeiro

[Revad]

Our Molina brothers.

[Angelsjunky]

Archie Manning

[Chuck]

15 hours ago, happybat4 said:

No way Disarcina was underrated. Maybe overrated.

I disagree. Great glove, good clutch hitter. I still believe that the collapse of the 1995 Angels was due to the Disar injury that season. 

You're not going to convince me otherwise. 

Besides his defensive versatility his game mirrored David Fletcher's, another current day underrated player in the big leagues. Though he did have a down year in 2021. 

[tdawg87]

Mike Cameron.

50.6 fWAR. 

He's nowhere near a HOF'er. But the dude had a pretty good career. 

 

[T.G.]

Waiting for @Inside Pitch to comment on Disar...

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

I disagree. Great glove, good clutch hitter. I still believe that the collapse of the 1995 Angels was due to the Disar injury that season. 

You're not going to convince me otherwise. 

Besides his defensive versatility his game mirrored David Fletcher's, another current day underrated player in the big leagues. Though he did have a down year in 2021. 

DiSarscina was having the best year of his career in 95. But he returned to his usual crappiness at the plate following. The guy was a terrible hitter and not clutch at all. My guess is if he hadn't suffered the injury water would have found its level by the end of the season. There was no way he was sustaining an OPS+ 40 points above his career average. 

[Chuck]

6 minutes ago, Blarg said:

DiSarscina was having the best year of his career in 95. But he returned to his usual crappiness at the plate following. The guy was a terrible hitter and not clutch at all. My guess is if he hadn't suffered the injury water would have found its level by the end of the season. There was no way he was sustaining an OPS+ 40 points above his career average. 

You missed the part where I said "You're not going to convince me otherwise."

[Dtwncbad]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

I disagree. Great glove, good clutch hitter. I still believe that the collapse of the 1995 Angels was due to the Disar injury that season. 

You're not going to convince me otherwise. 

Besides his defensive versatility his game mirrored David Fletcher's, another current day underrated player in the big leagues. Though he did have a down year in 2021. 

I fully agree Fletcher was regularly underrated.

To some degree I think he is now often overrated.

I personally am worried about his production going forward.

To me, he could be a 4 WAR guy next year or a negative WAR guy next year.

Fingers crossed.

[Taylor]

Theodore Breitenstein

Elmer Flick

Burleigh Grimes

Urban Shocker

[Angelsjunky]

Not sure if he's been mentioned, but Lou Whitaker. He's one of my top choices to get into the Hall at some point. 68.1 WAR, 15 seasons at 3+ WAR. Just a good to very good player for a very long time.

I don't know if he's underrated or not, but Jose Ramirez has somewhat quietly put together the third highest WAR over the last five years (2016-21), behind only Trout and Betts.

Here's an Angel: Chuck Finley. He was just so consistently good for so long. 11th highest pitcher WAR in the 90s and 56.9 for his career. His ERA was consistently over 4.00 for the latter half of his career, but during the height of the high offense era.