Underrated Players

[jsnpritchett]

19 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Theodore Breitenstein

The thinking man's Ohtani, really.

[happybat4]

7 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

I disagree. Great glove, good clutch hitter. I still believe that the collapse of the 1995 Angels was due to the Disar injury that season. 

You're not going to convince me otherwise. 

Besides his defensive versatility his game mirrored David Fletcher's, another current day underrated player in the big leagues. Though he did have a down year in 2021. 

Fletcher is a better hitter and defender. Disarcina averaged less than a single WAR a year for 12 years. Fletcher has almost matched Disarcina's career war in 4 seasons.

[ten ocho recon scout]

On 1/19/2022 at 10:53 AM, Jeff Fletcher said:

Johan Santana is one of those guys who was on the track for being a first ballot HOFer before injuries got to him. He still managed about 12 years and had a great peak. He was one of those guys you felt was an automatic win when he pitched. 

Good one.

He had kind of a short peak, but when he was there, he was about the best pitcher in baseball

And everyone has forgotten about him

[ten ocho recon scout]

10 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Not sure if he's been mentioned, but Lou Whitaker. He's one of my top choices to get into the Hall at some point. 68.1 WAR, 15 seasons at 3+ WAR. Just a good to very good player for a very long time.

I don't know if he's underrated or not, but Jose Ramirez has somewhat quietly put together the third highest WAR over the last five years (2016-21), behind only Trout and Betts.

Here's an Angel: Chuck Finley. He was just so consistently good for so long. 11th highest pitcher WAR in the 90s and 56.9 for his career. His ERA was consistently over 4.00 for the latter half of his career, but during the height of the high offense era.

I like the Finley pick. Ill add Lackey..

I know that sounds homer. But I doubt anybody other than us, some Sox fans etc still talk about him. But he had a pretty decent career. He had a good stretch where hed be the 2 on just about any staff

[Blarg]

11 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

You missed the part where I said "You're not going to convince me otherwise."

You missed the part where you are wrong. Even Dick Schofield was better. Not by much more than a rat fart but better. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

I think curtis granderson is a good one for recent guys. Not a super duper star, but a nice power / speed guy with a glove

[Lou]

13 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Not sure if he's been mentioned, but Lou Whitaker. He's one of my top choices to get into the Hall at some point. 68.1 WAR, 15 seasons at 3+ WAR. Just a good to very good player for a very long time.

Good one. 

[Angelsjunky]

10 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I think curtis granderson is a good one for recent guys. Not a super duper star, but a nice power / speed guy with a glove

Granderson was just a fun player. I love that 2007 seasons when he had 38 doubles, 23 triples, 23 home runs. Actually, both he and Jimmy Rollins became only the 6th and 7th players to join the "20-20-20" club that year, George Brett being the last in 1979.

[Dtwncbad]

Carlos Beltran

Chase Utley

Scott Rolan

Brian McCann

[Don]

39 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Carlos Beltran

Chase Utley

Scott Rolan

Brian McCann

Beltran has a pretty decent HOF case. Him and Rolen actually have the same career WAR (BR). It's interesting though because so much of Rolen's value was on D, even though he was a very good hitter. Beltran, on the other hand, kinda put together a ridiculous offensive career pretty quietly. The counting stats are impressive (2725H, 435HR, 312SB) and the first 10 or so years of his career were really really good.

[Dtwncbad]

22 minutes ago, Don said:

Beltran has a pretty decent HOF case. Him and Rolen actually have the same career WAR (BR). It's interesting though because so much of Rolen's value was on D, even though he was a very good hitter. Beltran, on the other hand, kinda put together a ridiculous offensive career pretty quietly. The counting stats are impressive (2725H, 435HR, 312SB) and the first 10 or so years of his career were really really good.

Beltran has more than a “pretty decent” HOF case.

I personally view him as making the cut to be one of the top 100 players of all time (just barely but that’s about where I would slot him) and there are like 260+ players in the HOF.

To me, it should be a complete no-brainer.

[Dtwncbad]

On 1/20/2022 at 9:41 AM, Angelsjunky said:

Not sure if he's been mentioned, but Lou Whitaker. He's one of my top choices to get into the Hall at some point. 68.1 WAR, 15 seasons at 3+ WAR. Just a good to very good player for a very long time.

I don't know if he's underrated or not, but Jose Ramirez has somewhat quietly put together the third highest WAR over the last five years (2016-21), behind only Trout and Betts.

Here's an Angel: Chuck Finley. He was just so consistently good for so long. 11th highest pitcher WAR in the 90s and 56.9 for his career. His ERA was consistently over 4.00 for the latter half of his career, but during the height of the high offense era.

100%.

Speaking of “you will never convince me otherwise”. . .

Lou Whitaker was a better baseball player than Derek Jeter.

There isn’t a chance in hell somebody could convince me otherwise.

[Stradling]

I haven’t looked at Beltran career numbers but if he is in a discussion of top 100 players then I have absolutely underrated him.  

[Docwaukee]

Discar was terrible.   He's one of the worst hitters in the history of baseball.  That's not hyperbole.  14th worst for any player with more than 4000 PA

[Dtwncbad]

41 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I haven’t looked at Beltran career numbers but if he is in a discussion of top 100 players then I have absolutely underrated him.  

Even if I am off by a hundred players and he is #200 instead of #100, he should still be a lock for HOF.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Dtwncbad

[Stradling]

20 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Even if I am off by a hundred players and he is #200 instead of #100, he should still be a lock for HOF.

Yea I looked at his stats and I underrated him. 

[Don]

Eric Davis is another one that is kinda historically underrated now. Admittedly a lot of that is due to both cancer and injuries. His stretch from 86-90 was pretty ridiculous, and he's probably a HOFer if his career doesn't get derailed after that. What's weird is that he had that injury/cancer stretch from like 91-95, then miraculously came back and was a really solid player again from like 96-2000. Just an odd career.

[Stradling]

Carlos Delgado. 

[tdawg87]

Mark Buerhle

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Mark Buerhle

14 straight seasons with 200 innings pitched. Simply amazing. 

[Second Base]

On 1/19/2022 at 6:03 PM, Angelsjunky said:

Zach Borenstein.

Right, @Second Base?

The best Jewish minor league OF born after 1980 in the history of the organization.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Second Base

[happybat4]

On 1/20/2022 at 10:42 AM, tdawg87 said:

Mike Cameron.

50.6 fWAR. 

He's nowhere near a HOF'er. But the dude had a pretty good career. 

 

That's a good one. Impressive WAR for someone who was never a "star". He played in some pitcher friendly parks from what I remember.

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, happybat4 said:

That's a good one. Impressive WAR for someone who was never a "star". He played in some pitcher friendly parks from what I remember.

Yeah it was really all defense, but he wasn't terrible with the bat. He had a career 106 OPS+ and was incredibly consistent from 1999 to 2009.

Not too dissimilar to Torii, actually. Other than counting stats.

[Angelsjunky]

14 hours ago, Second Base said:

The best Jewish minor league OF born after 1980 in the history of the organization.

Unto us a child is born.

[Angelsjunky]

Mike Cameron was appreciated by statnerds, as his stellar defense and balanced skill set showed up in WAR. He was actually somewhat similar to Devon White in that a huge chunk of his value was defense, although a slightly better hitter:

Cameron: .249/.338/.444, 278 HR, 297 SB, 107 wRC+, 50.6 WAR, 130.4 Def

White: .263/.319/.419, 208 HR, 346 SB, 98 wRC+, 41.8 WAR, 150.6 Def