Marlins considering trading from rotation surplus

[Mark68]

Miami’s at least debating that possibility, as Jon Morosi of MLB.com reports (on Twitter) the team is considering whether to trade one of their arbitration-eligible hurlers this offseason. Sandy Alcantara, Pablo López and Elieser Hernández are each controllable through 2024 via arbitration, and Morosi suggests the Marlins could be open to moving someone from that group.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/11/marlins-considering-trading-from-rotation-surplus.html

[Taylor]

Rengifo for Sandy Alcantara.

[Revad]

49 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Rengifo for Sandy Alcantara.

We could even toss Ward in there.  Seriously Adams, Rengifo and Ward might bring in a pretty good pitcher.

[eligrba]

15 minutes ago, Revad said:

We could even toss Ward in there.  Seriously Adams, Rengifo and Ward might bring in a pretty good pitcher.

I think if this is possible it would have already happened.  I have a tough time believing Rengifo and Ward have that much trade value. 

[Dtwncbad]

Adding Taylor Ward to a trade offer is the equivalent to just saying “please”

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, Revad said:

We could even toss Ward in there.  Seriously Adams, Rengifo and Ward might bring in a pretty good pitcher.

I was kidding. Unless the Marlins are dumb they'll trade those guys to a team that can offer a lot more than the Angels can.

[Junkballer]

The only player that comes to mind that would work for them is Stassi.  Area of need, Arb 3.

[totdprods]

Aside from the big names, I'd try to get Elieser Hernandez.

[angelsnationtalk]

Projected Arb salaries for 2022:

Sandy Alcantra: $4.5M
Pablo Lopez: $2.5M

If the Angels do decide to pursue a trade then these guys leave the Angels with plenty of money to address other needs. Even still look at another Ace. 

But it'd be quit the trade package which makes me nervous. 

[Taylor]

35 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Projected Arb salaries for 2022:

Sandy Alcantra: $4.5M
Pablo Lopez: $2.5M

If the Angels do decide to pursue a trade then these guys leave the Angels with plenty of money to address other needs. Even still look at another Ace. 

But it'd be quit the trade package which makes me nervous. 

It would take Adell and/or Marsh plus a top pitching prospect at minimum.

[EdmontonAngelsFan]

Wasn't there a rumor that we almost traded Brandon Marsh for Max Meyer from the Marlins this past trade deadline?

[ScruffytheJanitor]

I am a huge fan of Pablo Lopez; depends on his shoulder situation though. His strike out numbers are just sexy. Alcantara has a better track record, but he will cost more.

Adams/Regifo/Ward will NOT be enough to get either. Would probably cost Adell or Marsh PLUS at least one more interesting piece-- along the line of Kochanowicz . Since this offseason is the one where we need to pony up, I'd still be in favor of this. 

[halonatic13]

I'd give Adell, not Marsh.  Marsh is the bees knees.  

[totdprods]

If the Angels do pull off a trade for a top arm, good chance it could involve one of Canning, Sandoval, Suarez, Bush, Detmers, or Bachman, but in doing so could also allow the financial flexibility to sign two additional arms.

I could live with dealing a top prospect if we landed a frontline arm in a trade, signed a top arm, and maybe re-signed someone like Cobb. 

[angelsnationtalk]

45 minutes ago, totdprods said:

If the Angels do pull off a trade for a top arm, good chance it could involve one of Canning, Sandoval, Suarez, Bush, Detmers, or Bachman, but in doing so could also allow the financial flexibility to sign two additional arms.

I could live with dealing a top prospect if we landed a frontline arm in a trade, signed a top arm, and maybe re-signed someone like Cobb. 

Love this. I'd deal Canning, but would stall a bit if names like Detmers/Bachman are involved with an Adell/Marsh trade. 

However, it's likely their best bet considering guys like Alcantara and Lopez and others have projected salary that looks great. Leaves plenty of $ to get another Ace like Scherzer or someone. 

[WicketMaiden]

3 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Adding Taylor Ward to a trade offer is the equivalent to just saying “please”

That's a bit harsh, sure he's no All-star but he had an OPS+ of 108 and 0.6 bWAR, and a WRC+ of 111 and 0.5 fWAR from only 237 plate appearances in 2021. He's not a liability in the field defensively and can cover several positions, there's definitely value there.

[totdprods]

20 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Love this. I'd deal Canning, but would stall a bit if names like Detmers/Bachman are involved with an Adell/Marsh trade. 

However, it's likely their best bet considering guys like Alcantara and Lopez and others have projected salary that looks great. Leaves plenty of $ to get another Ace like Scherzer or someone. 

I know it'd be hard to move Detmers or Bachman already, but if they pulled off a trade and signed two arms, you have Ohtani, trade, top FA arm, lesser FA arm, Sandoval, and Suarez for at least the next two or three seasons. Plenty of time to draft another college arm to throw into that mix. I don't think they're as untouchable as we're conditioned into thinking they should be. The pitching depth is set up very nicely if we add a couple impact arms this winter, enough to allow dealing one.

[Dtwncbad]

29 minutes ago, WicketMaiden said:

That's a bit harsh, sure he's no All-star but he had an OPS+ of 108 and 0.6 bWAR, and a WRC+ of 111 and 0.5 fWAR from only 237 plate appearances in 2021. He's not a liability in the field defensively and can cover several positions, there's definitely value there.

He has minimal trade value.  You can trade him for a different profile player that also has minimal value.

My point is in a deal where you are pursuing an front line starter, he is useless as trade capital.  He isn’t what other teams want in those kinds of deals.

The definition of a “throw in” in that context. Kind of like saying please.

[tdawg87]

I agree with @Dtwncbad. 

You guys fuckin love your throw-ins. Unfortunately anyone we trade with does not.

You want a legit starter for 3 years or more? You're giving up Marsh/Adell and Detmers. To start.

[DMVol]

I wouldn't be afraid to trade Adell or Marsh for one of their young pitchers.....An OF'er would be easy enough to pick up in free agency....I don't think you can count on Upton so you'd need to sign somebody.....Perry can use the Braves plan for picking up OF'ers on the cheap....

[angelsnationtalk]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

I know it'd be hard to move Detmers or Bachman already, but if they pulled off a trade and signed two arms, you have Ohtani, trade, top FA arm, lesser FA arm, Sandoval, and Suarez for at least the next two or three seasons. Plenty of time to draft another college arm to throw into that mix. I don't think they're as untouchable as we're conditioned into thinking they should be. The pitching depth is set up very nicely if we add a couple impact arms this winter, enough to allow dealing one.

You may be right. If it needed to be done the i'd lean more towards dealing Detmers. He's just about MLB ready for any team. 

Angels then have the chance to keep Bachman and he could be an early option out of pen if they make a 2022 playoff run. 

[totdprods]

20 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

You may be right. If it needed to be done the i'd lean more towards dealing Detmers. He's just about MLB ready for any team. 

Angels then have the chance to keep Bachman and he could be an early option out of pen if they make a 2022 playoff run. 

Depends on who in FA they're targeting who they actually sign too. If they land one (or both?) of Ray and Rodriguez (or lesser lefties like Matz, Duffy, Happ, etc.) , plus Sandoval and Suarez, you have four lefties without including Detmers. 

Not that handedness should be a motivating factor in dealing a top prospect, but if that somehow came to fruition it could factor in.

[Angelsjunky]

Good old trusty Trade Values simulator:

Alcantara (78.4) and Hernandez (5.2) for Marsh (47.3) and Detmers (37.7)

I think that's realistic in terms of what it would take to get Alcantara, but no way would I do that. Marsh is the single young player who has the most likely chance of producing very good value over the next 5+ years, and with questions around Adell and Adams, and Upton playing like latter-day Vernon Wells, the Angels need him. In fact, I'm not even considering Marsh, Detmers, Bachman, or some of the lower level guys who haven't established their value: Paris, Vera, Quero, Ramirez.

The simulator has Trevor Rogers at even more (96.7), and Pablo Lopez pretty high (57.1). Dropping a tier, you have Sixto Sanchez (27.5), and then all the way down to Jesus Luzardo (10), Zach Thompson (5.9), and Elieser Hernandez (5.2).

The Angels' tradeable assets (in terms of who they could conceivably trade and has positive value, or 1 or more):

Brandon Marsh (47.3), Reid Detmers (31.7), Jared Walsh (25), Patrick Sandoval (16.1), Jo Adell (12.9), Sam Bachman (10.3), Jose Suarez (8.7), Kyren Paris (6.3), Arol Vera (6.3), Jeremiah Jackson (5.4), Jordyn Adams (4.9), Austin Warren (4.6), Adrian Placencia (4.2),  Alex Ramirez (3.9), C Rodriguez (3.9), Ky Bush (3.3), Griffin Canning (2.9), Luis Rengifo (2.8), Jaime Barria (2.7), Orlando Martinez (2.4), Taylor Ward (2.4), Zach Kochanowicz (1.7), Werner Blakely (1.6), David Calabrese (1.6), William Holmes (1.4), Jose Bonilla (1.3), Trent Deveaux (1.3), D'Shawn Knowles (1.3), Davis Daniel (1.1), Juan Soto (1.0).

As I said, I think you have to stay away from trading any good young pitchers or most of the lower level guys. I think they might undervalue Adell somewhat, and possibly Canning as well, although it is telling how low he's dropped.

They could swing a "budget" trade of something like:

Rengifo (2.8) and Barria (2.7) for Thompson (5.9) or Hernandez (5.2). Or just Jackson or Adams for one of those two.

Or they could add Jackson or Adams and ask for Luzardo.

I just don't see them putting the package that would be required to net Rogers, Alcantara, Lopez, or even Sanchez.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Angelsjunky

[totdprods]

3 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Juan Soto (1.0).

seems low.

Edited November 9, 2021 by totdprods

[ukyah]

i think the angels have to hold onto marsh, detmers, bachman, and sandoval just to realistically maintain their total payroll. 

they need marsh over adell, if one is to be traded, specifically for his ability to play a good CF. trout is at the doorstep of having to move to a corner spot.

sandoval doesn't really have the trade value to equal giving him up. detmers & bachman need to be in the rotation so that the angels can afford their FA SP that they intend to get.

you can have raisel, Big FA SP, some decent ss and rp signings if you handle it that way. you should even be able to fit cobb in there too, if you like, while maintaining the angels established payroll norms.