Who is your preferred SS for 2022?

[BTH]

24 minutes ago, Hubs said:

The projected Payroll at $130 is the number that's wrong. They have $110 committed to 5 players, Trout (35.5), Rendon (35.5), Upton (28), Ohtani (5.5), Fletcher (5). Arbitration is maybe $5M for Stassi and Mayers. That's $115. Club Control is $8. That's $123. 180-123 = 57. And 180 is not a hard number. There will be a new CBA and new Lux Tax Payroll Limits. 

Contracted Player:	Amount:
Mike Trout	$37,116,667
Anthony Rendon	$36,571,429
Justin Upton	$28,000,000
Shohei Ohtani	$5,500,000
David Fletcher	$4,000,000
Contracted Total:	$111,188,096
Arb Eligible Player:	Amount:
Max Stassi	$2,700,000
Mike Mayers	$2,200,000
Phil Gosselin	$1,500,000
Junior Guerra	$1,300,000
Franklin Barreto	$700,000
Arb Eligible Total:	$8,400,000
Pre-Arb Players:	Amount:
33 - 10 = 23	$570,000
Pre-Arb Total:	$13,110,000

 

Contracted Total:	$111,188,096
Arb Eligible Total:	$8,400,000
Pre-Arb Total:	$13,110,000
Total:	$132,698,096

 

The pre-arb total may be a little off, but it's not that far off because you have to account for guys being on the 60-day IL during the season. Even if you just do 26 - 10 (contracted/arb-elligble players) that leaves you with 16 players making the league minimum, getting you to $9.12M for pre-arb.

[Hubs]

49 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Contracted Player:	Amount:
Mike Trout	$35,545,000
Anthony Rendon	$36,000,000
Justin Upton	$28,000,000
Shohei Ohtani	$5,500,000
David Fletcher	$4,000,000
Contracted Total:	$109,545,000
Arb Eligible Player:	Amount:
Max Stassi	$2,700,000
Mike Mayers	$2,200,000
Phil Gosselin	$1,500,000
Junior Guerra	$1,300,000
Franklin Barreto	$700,000
Arb Eligible Total:	$4,900,000
Pre-Arb Players:	Amount:
26- 7 + 5 FA = 14	$570,000-700,000
Pre-Arb Total:	$8,750,000

 

Contracted Total:	$109,545,000
Arb Eligible Total:	$4,900,000
Pre-Arb Total:	$8,750,000
Total:	$123,195,000

 

The pre-arb total may be a little off, but it's not that far off because you have to account for guys being on the 60-day IL during the season. Even if you just do 26 - 10 (contracted/arb-elligble players) that leaves you with 16 players making the league minimum, getting you to $9.12M for pre-arb.

I changed it so you can see where my numbers come from. You don't pay the entire 40 man major league minimum salaries. They also don't count as to opening day or real payroll, they do count in luxury tax.

First, the signing bonuses are still on both Cot's and Spotrac, and your numbers included them. @Jeff FletcherFletcher mentioned this a while back and so I've dropped the bonuses.

In AAA a guy on the Major League 40-man roster without major league experience, makes a minimum of 46,000. If they have major league experience (only a day in the majors), they make much more, at least 96,000 per year. This is also accounted for in the roughly $2.25-3M in minor league salaries the team adds to its luxury tax payroll, not in "real" payroll. Ettin frequently cites this wrongly in his salary articles. Just because they renew a minor leaguers contract at said amount, does not mean he earns that.

When a guy is brought up, say Packy Naughton is brought up to start, he makes the prorated portion of the major league minimum salary for the time he is up, and then when he is sent back to AAA, he makes his prorated AAA salary. Ward was up for around 2/3 of the season and in AAA for 1/3 of the season last year, he'd make then 2/3 of the major league salary and 1/3 of the minor league one. So 400k+30k. = $430,000k.

You are right that when a guy goes on the major league 60-day DL he is guaranteed his prorated major league salary, but if they are in the minors when they get placed on the 60-Day DL, it's much less. Canning made much less than Sandoval last year because of this fact.

None of this adds up to be a lot of money. They used a lot of guys last year, and that is far from the norm. But by accounting for full salaries for the 26 man roster club control guys, you are able to absorb the cost. If they swap Naughton for Junk, the number to the payroll doesn't increase, Naughton makes minor league salary while Junk makes Major and vice versa.

 

 

 

 

[Revad]

57 minutes ago, Hubs said:

None of this adds up to be a lot of money.

For the team.  Maybe different for the player.  Great post though.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

If signing a SS costs us a better pitcher, I would stick with an in house option. Finish with rotation and bullpen upgrades first, and worry about SS later.

[Hubs]

9 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

If signing a SS costs us a better pitcher, I would stick with an in house option. Finish with rotation and bullpen upgrades first, and worry about SS later.

A legit fielding SS that can handle the position well defensively will do wonders for the pitching staff. Ground ball guys like Stroman will want a better defense behind them than we currently have.

There are other options besides the top 5 SS FA, but bottom line is we need to add one. 

Brendon Davis is not a SS and neither are Michael Stefanic or Jose Rojas, so we need to add MINF depth.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

5 hours ago, Hubs said:

A legit fielding SS that can handle the position well defensively will do wonders for the pitching staff. Ground ball guys like Stroman will want a better defense behind them than we currently have.

There are other options besides the top 5 SS FA, but bottom line is we need to add one. 

Brendon Davis is not a SS and neither are Michael Stefanic or Jose Rojas, so we need to adN ot if it costs us a  d MINF depth.

Not if it costs us a pitcher.

[Hubs]

15 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Not if it costs us a pitcher.

It’s not like we won’t have a pitcher. I think we acquire two solid starters. Leaving Ohtani, Sandoval, Suarez, Detmers, C-Rod, Barria, Canning, Naughton, Bachman, Daniel, Criswell, and Junk as SP options in the system. 
Assuming we get two guys like Scherzer and Duffy or Stroman and Cobb or Ray and Gray, etc..I’m  pretty happy with the teams depth 1-11. 

If they decided to get a guy like Semien and a starter like Stroman instead of two pitchers instead signing a guy like Bundy or Heaney or Richards or Lorenzen or someone on a bounce back deal… 

That might be better.

[Angel Oracle]

I was going to vote Other FA, until Taylor killed it this post-season.

Someone else is going to go all Arte on his team, and sign Taylor to a 4 years/$80 million deal.

That kind of money is needed for pitching.

Now, I wonder if they have Rengifo, Mayfield, and Davis battle for SS spot, and keep two of them with the second one filling utility role.  Hoping Davis sticks of course, although he may need another partial season in the minors.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[Angel Oracle]

16 minutes ago, Hubs said:

It’s not like we won’t have a pitcher. I think we acquire two solid starters. Leaving Ohtani, Sandoval, Suarez, Detmers, C-Rod, Barria, Canning, Naughton, Bachman, Daniel, Criswell, and Junk as SP options in the system. 
Assuming we get two guys like Scherzer and Duffy or Stroman and Cobb or Ray and Gray, etc..I’m  pretty happy with the teams depth 1-11. 

If they decided to get a guy like Semien and a starter like Stroman instead of two pitchers instead signing a guy like Bundy or Heaney or Richards or Lorenzen or someone on a bounce back deal… 

That might be better.

If Semien can be overpaid on a shorter deal like three years, I could see that.

Need to get out of the long term outside FA contracts business for now, assuming Ohtani continues the great two way work and command something big to keep him.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[Angel Oracle]

21 hours ago, Hubs said:

A legit fielding SS that can handle the position well defensively will do wonders for the pitching staff. Ground ball guys like Stroman will want a better defense behind them than we currently have.

There are other options besides the top 5 SS FA, but bottom line is we need to add one. 

Brendon Davis is not a SS and neither are Michael Stefanic or Jose Rojas, so we need to add MINF depth.

Not according to those watching Davis play at SLC, they like what they see.   Now, it may be prudent to give him another partial season at SLC to further prepare his SS work.

[Revad]

We need a SS, no doubt.  I don’t think we need a star offense wise, but we need a top flight star defensive SS.  Someone young, hungry and that gobbles ground balls.

[Docwaukee]

If Seager or Correa are getting 8-10yr monster contracts then Semien is getting at least 5 and maybe up to 7.  

And Taylor isn't going to get that contract because of the playoffs.  Teams don't spend on a guy for half a decade because he hits three hrs in a post season game.  He's gonna get close to 80m for 4 years because he's a 3 WAR player with strong positional versatility who's entering his age 31 season.   I'm thinking it won't quite be 80 mil but my guess is he gets a grandal/Ozuna type deal.  Like 4/60 something maybe.  

It's probably not going to happen.  But I think it should.  

[AngelStew43]

Seager or Correa.  The OBP of Baez is frightening, for what he'll be paid.  

Seager would help balance the lineup, LH power.  Also, with Trae around, very unlikely that he returns to LAD. 

Correa would weaken the competition.  

Semien and Simmons are the oldest of the group.  Please, don't pay for something they did.  

Pay for what they are going to do.

[Docwaukee]

Seager and Correa likely get at least what Rendon got.  Probably more.  They shouldn't even be part of the discussion process for the Angels.  

Here's a scenario that most will hate.  I think Philly is going to give Seager a huge deal.  But they've got Didi for another year at about 15m.  Wouldn't be surprised if they off load him and pay down some of what they owe.  And I could totally see the Angels taking on 6-7 mil of his contract with minimal layout to get him.   Not saying I'd be overly excited about this, but I could see it happening.  

[Revad]

46 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Seager and Correa likely get at least what Rendon got.  Probably more.  They shouldn't even be part of the discussion process for the Angels.  

Here's a scenario that most will hate.  I think Philly is going to give Seager a huge deal.  But they've got Didi for another year at about 15m.  Wouldn't be surprised if they off load him and pay down some of what they owe.  And I could totally see the Angels taking on 6-7 mil of his contract with minimal layout to get him.   Not saying I'd be overly excited about this, but I could see it happening.  

I wouldn’t mind a one-year solution.  Internal options will be (hopefully) a better option this time next year.  If we’re looking for defense Simmons is still an option but I don’t know what the relationships are.  I’d even look at doing a rule 5 pick that is an excellent defensive SS that can play 2nd and 3rd.

[AngelStew43]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

Seager and Correa likely get at least what Rendon got.  Probably more.  They shouldn't even be part of the discussion process for the Angels.  

Here's a scenario that most will hate.  I think Philly is going to give Seager a huge deal.  But they've got Didi for another year at about 15m.  Wouldn't be surprised if they off load him and pay down some of what they owe.  And I could totally see the Angels taking on 6-7 mil of his contract with minimal layout to get him.   Not saying I'd be overly excited about this, but I could see it happening.  

And this is why we continually are frustrated all season, not to mention playoff time.  The team has at least 50 million to work with this winter, more if we can offload the last year of Upton's deal.  

Why wouldn't we act to strengthen both pitching and offense in that case?  Seager and Correa are both star players, and 27 years old.  Last time I checked, and yes I watched the Angels in September, and all the other months that they play in, too, the Angels have to score to win games also.  

Go back and look at the runs scored thread.  How many runs did we score?  663? Less than that, maybe.  

I'd really like to see Seager, (my choice) or Correa, if we don't sign Scherzer.

Edited October 23, 2021 by AngelStew43
grammitical

[ten ocho recon scout]

Not sure of this has been mentioned already. But aim not sure Seager would be top up to coming here. 1, its hard to leave the dodgers and come to the current team (lets be honest). But Id also guess the seager family isnt too big of a fan of the angels.

Maybe Im just crazy thinking that. 

[AngelStew43]

Just now, ten ocho recon scout said:

Not sure of this has been mentioned already. But aim not sure Seager would be top up to coming here. 1, its hard to leave the dodgers and come to the current team (lets be honest). But Id also guess the seager family isnt too big of a fan of the angels.

Maybe Im just crazy thinking that. 

Once a player has played in So Cal, why would they want to leave?  Please, no gas pumps!

Nearly perfect weather for baseball every day, good crowds, and enough money to live on the beach. 

[tdawg87]

22 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

And this is why we continually are frustrated all season, not to mention playoff time.  The team has at least 50 million to work with this winter, more if we can offload the last year of Upton's deal.  

Why wouldn't we act to strengthen both pitching and offense in that case?  Seager and Correa are both star players, and 27 years old.  Last time I checked, and yes I watched the Angels in September, and all the other months that they play in, too, the Angels have to score to win games also.  

Go back and look at the runs scored thread.  How many runs did we score?  663? Less than that, maybe.  

I'd really like to see Seager, (my choice) or Correa, if we don't sign Scherzer.

They scored 723 runs. Right about average and I don't think I have to mention that they'd have scored a ton more if Trout and Rendon were healthy.

I don't disagree that they need to score runs. And I agree that we need a shortstop. But do you think dumping $30 million a year on one is smart? We need Iglesias back. And at minimum 1 starter, but they really need 2. Not to mention bench depth, bullpen depth, etc... 

50 million doesn't get that, no matter how much you "backload" the contracts.

There's also 0 chance Upton's contract is going anywhere. He has a no trade clause. And no one is taking it unless they're getting Adell.

Edited October 23, 2021 by tdawg87

[AngelStew43]

44 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

They scored 723 runs. Right about average and I don't think I have to mention that they'd have scored a ton more if Trout and Rendon were healthy.

I don't disagree that they need to score runs. And I agree that we need a shortstop. But do you think dumping $30 million a year on one is smart? We need Iglesias back. And at minimum 1 starter, but they really need 2. Not to mention bench depth, bullpen depth, etc... 

50 million doesn't get that, no matter how much you "backload" the contracts.

There's also 0 chance Upton's contract is going anywhere. He has a no trade clause. And no one is taking it unless they're getting Adell.

It didn't cost Adell or Marsh to dump Cozart's contract, and it shouldn't cost more than a couple of top 20 prospects to move Upton's, especially if the NL adopts the DH rule. 

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

It didn't cost Adell or Marsh to dump Cozart's contract, and it shouldn't cost more than a couple of top 20 prospects to move Upton's, especially if the NL adopts the DH rule. 

No, it cost our first round draft pick. And Cozart's salary was $12.16 million. Upton's is $28 million. And again: No trade clause.

Completely different scenarios.

[Torridd]

If you knew Trout and Rendon would be healthy next year, would those of you who think we need an external shortstop still want one?

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Torridd said:

If you knew Trout and Rendon would be healthy next year, would those of you who think we need an external shortstop still want one?

Yes.

But not one of the top guys.

[Torridd]

1 hour ago, AngelStew43 said:

And this is why we continually are frustrated all season, not to mention playoff time.  The team has at least 50 million to work with this winter, more if we can offload the last year of Upton's deal.  

Why wouldn't we act to strengthen both pitching and offense in that case?  Seager and Correa are both star players, and 27 years old.  Last time I checked, and yes I watched the Angels in September, and all the other months that they play in, too, the Angels have to score to win games also.  

Go back and look at the runs scored thread.  How many runs did we score?  663? Less than that, maybe.  

I'd really like to see Seager, (my choice) or Correa, if we don't sign Scherzer.

Are you saying it has to be one or the other or do you mean we can sign two lesser pitchers in lieu of Seager/Correa? If the former, I disagree.

[Torridd]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

Yes.

But not one of the top guys.

So like a J. Iglesias? I'm just concerned that an external shortstop would take away from the money we need for pitching. My philosophy is get the starters, re-sign Iglesias and any money left can get an outside shortstop.