Grading Minasian's First Trade Deadline

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

If they view him as insurance then they won’t pay very much for him. I guess it would have been fine to take whatever you could get for him but I guess we’ll never know what the interest level was 

Right and quite frankly I can’t think of any utility guys that were moved either at the deadline. Baseball has been bastardized to a point where post season rosters aren’t built like they once were.  Those utility guys or upgrade at back up catcher or a guy that could lay down a bunt or steal you a bag as a pinch runner just aren’t around anymore.  How did we even have those guys on a team? Oh I know how, they didn’t have a 25 man roster with 14 pitchers. I am going to sound old but I miss 5 starters and 6 relievers.  This year we had so many pitchers we only had one actual outfielder, who was our 4th outfielder.  And yes I know that isn’t the reason we only had one outfielder. 

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, GrittyVeterans said:

I would have traded both Iglesias' for sure. The payoff is a couple more prospects (one potentially very good one). That's the move you have to make when you're 6.5 GB in August...you would think

If they don't re-sign Raisel it's a complete failure...maybe they will...maybe they won't

So we hung onto him for a maybe

What is so bold about trading two guys on expiring contracts?

Who are you trading them to and for what players? Or are you just making noises to have something to post? 

[Stradling]

Feisty @Dochalo is better than feisty Blarg. 

[Blarg]

I just don't get the crying about what Minasian didn't do when no one can pinpoint a plan that is better. Just saying, trade players x,y,z, doesn't constitute a plan. 

 

[GrittyVeterans]

17 minutes ago, Blarg said:

What is so bold about trading two guys on expiring contracts?

Who are you trading them to and for what players? Or are you just making noises to have something to post? 

What’s your problem? 
 

Treating a post on a message board as if it’s my dissertation is bizarre behavior even for you

[Angels Fan Forever]

18 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Right and quite frankly I can’t think of any utility guys that were moved either at the deadline. Baseball has been bastardized to a point where post season rosters aren’t built like they once were.  Those utility guys or upgrade at back up catcher or a guy that could lay down a bunt or steal you a bag as a pinch runner just aren’t around anymore.  How did we even have those guys on a team? Oh I know how, they didn’t have a 25 man roster with 14 pitchers. I am going to sound old but I miss 5 starters and 6 relievers.  This year we had so many pitchers we only had one actual outfielder, who was our 4th outfielder.  And yes I know that isn’t the reason we only had one outfielder. 

It's a good point but the rosters are 26 and 13 not 25 and 14. We usually carry 14 because of Ohtani but have 13 right now because of adding Thaiss as a 3rd catcher.

The roster construction has definitely changed over the years as the way pitchers are used has evolved. I'd like to see MLB rosters go to 27

[Stradling]

11 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I just don't get the crying about what Minasian didn't do when no one can pinpoint a plan that is better. Just saying, trade players x,y,z, doesn't constitute a plan. 

 

I get it, I have said we don’t know everything that went into deals that happened or negotiations that didn’t result in a deal.  But common sense tells us that they could have traded Raisel and the return would have been better than what we expected a week ago. 

[WicketMaiden]

I gave a D because it sounds like he didn't really have a plan other than answer the phone and see what happens.

Sure he got nice returns for Heaney and Watson, but he said they weren't actively looking to move players and didn't want to give up on the season, and Scherzer aside (yeah right) the Angels didn't appear to be very active and certainly didn't succeed in acquiring anyone to improve the team's immediate future. The team got very marginally weaker, and the farm got very marginally stronger. Looks like he just sat on his hands.

So, it's more of the same, hope for the best and maybe a wild-card play-in game.  We've been failing at that for how many years now? 

[oldguy]

It seems he's trying to have his cake and eat it too.  The Angels just can't compete with teams above .500. Perry's last 30 acquisitions have all been pitchers, but that seems like lazy, wishful thinking to me.  Do you mean there was not ONE position player who projected better than the 30 pitchers?  

[Blarg]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I get it, I have said we don’t know everything that went into deals that happened or negotiations that didn’t result in a deal.  But common sense tells us that they could have traded Raisel and the return would have been better than what we expected a week ago. 

To whom that needs a second tier pitcher that loses focus when the game isn't on the line? Let's be honest, he's not that good so you have to find a team that wants what he is. Now look at the rosters of contending teams and ask which need a reliever or second tier closer as a rental. 

Dodgers? Nope, they are stacked in relief pitchers. So are the Padres, Giants are in great shape, Brewers are in good shape, Mets are ok but not great, the Reds bullpen is bad but they are a bottom feeder wild card team. So you have the Mets as a possible in the NL. 

Red Sox are set, Rays are awesome, White Sox could raise their floor but have 3 guys better than, A's are good, Seattle could use help, Yankees over paid for Heaney, Blue Jays could use a second tier reliever but they have as much chance at the playoffs as the Angels so they are not taking a shot at the dark. You really want to you could put Houston in the mix. So you really only have the Astros or Seattle that is fringe competitive. So really only one team in the AL.

When you boil down who needs a rental you basically have two teams, the Mets and Astros. The Mets blew their trade chip on Javier Baez because they are the Mets. The Astros picked up Phil Maton for their bullpen, kind of a silly trade. 

So all the talk of trading Raisel is like mice agreeing they should put a bell on the cat but no one has a plan to do it. 

[aznhockeyguy]

For the actual deals that happened: B+.  Most people in this board thought Watson and Heaney have little to no trade value, but Perry was able to get 4 prospects and a fringy AAAA player. 

A significant amount of people wanted to see more selling but as people already mentioned, don't know if Perry was hamstrung by Arte to prevent additional deals. Or perhaps Perry was waiting for a better offer and it never arrived. Without having full knowledge, it's tough to judge this deadline. 

[Docwaukee]

23 minutes ago, Blarg said:

To whom that needs a second tier pitcher that loses focus when the game isn't on the line? Let's be honest, he's not that good so you have to find a team that wants what he is. Now look at the rosters of contending teams and ask which need a reliever or second tier closer as a rental. 

Dodgers? Nope, they are stacked in relief pitchers. So are the Padres, Giants are in great shape, Brewers are in good shape, Mets are ok but not great, the Reds bullpen is bad but they are a bottom feeder wild card team. So you have the Mets as a possible in the NL. 

Red Sox are set, Rays are awesome, White Sox could raise their floor but have 3 guys better than, A's are good, Seattle could use help, Yankees over paid for Heaney, Blue Jays could use a second tier reliever but they have as much chance at the playoffs as the Angels so they are not taking a shot at the dark. You really want to you could put Houston in the mix. So you really only have the Astros or Seattle that is fringe competitive. So really only one team in the AL.

When you boil down who needs a rental you basically have two teams, the Mets and Astros. The Mets blew their trade chip on Javier Baez because they are the Mets. The Astros picked up Phil Maton for their bullpen, kind of a silly trade. 

So all the talk of trading Raisel is like mice agreeing they should put a bell on the cat but no one has a plan to do it. 

your logic is flawed.  Any playoff team would rather have Iglesias to displace their worst pen guy.  A crap ton of lesser relievers were acquired to all those teams and more.  It boils down to asking price and trying to get a fair deal for something that is of no value in two months and almost no value to you right now but value to someone else. 

Minasian did well on the Watson trade and if you're gonna try to tell me that there wasn't a contender out there that would have offered more for Iglesias than they got for Watson then I guess the conversation is over.    

[UndertheHalo]

If they re sign Iglesias what do we figure he should be paid ? To me it seems like the Angels can’t afford to put serious money into 1 bullpen guy.  They’ve got more than half a team to sign this offseason.  

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

If they re sign Iglesias what do we figure he should be paid ? To me it seems like the Angels can’t afford to put serious money into 1 bullpen guy.  They’ve got more than half a team to sign this offseason.  

As much as I like Iglesias, I'm kinda with you on this one.  Top closers like Chapman, Kimbrel, Will Smith, etc. are getting $13M+ per year.   Iglesias is making $9.125M this year, so presumably would want an increase to that upper-tier closer level on his next contract.  The Angels have $110M in 2022 money committed to just 5 players (Trout, Rendon, Upton, Ohtani, Fletcher), so assuming they keep to roughly the same budget next year as they had this year, spending $13M+ on a reliever might not be the best use of resources.

[UndertheHalo]

9 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

As much as I like Iglesias, I'm kinda with you on this one.  Top closers like Chapman, Kimbrel, Will Smith, etc. are getting $13M+ per year.   Iglesias is making $9.125M this year, so presumably would want an increase to that upper-tier closer level on his next contract.  The Angels have $110M in 2022 money committed to just 5 players (Trout, Rendon, Upton, Ohtani, Fletcher), so assuming they keep to roughly the same budget next year as they had this year, spending $13M+ on a reliever might not be the best use of resources.

Right, I mean it won’t be a QO because even the Angels at their *dumbest* won’t do that.  But he is going get like 13 million and the Angels really can’t afford that for any reliever.  And again, even if they did do it, Iglesias shouldn’t be the one to get that contract.  Sorry.  

[UndertheHalo]

Of course Arte could decide to spend like the Guggenheim demons and then they can do whatever they want.  I approve of that plan. 

[stormngt]

11 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

He would never say that publicly if that were the case. 
 

I did ask him why he didn’t trade those guys and he just basically said they don’t want to give up on the season.
 

I assume they would have given up if anyone had offered something they couldn’t refuse though. 
 

it seems like they got overpays on both Watson and Heaney so maybe he wanted an overpay for any deal. 

"Did not want to give up on the season"

We can't score a run against the team we are chasing in the WC.

Sorry but that is dumbass thinking.

[stormngt]

36 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Right, I mean it won’t be a QO because even the Angels at their *dumbest* won’t do that.  But he is going get like 13 million and the Angels really can’t afford that for any reliever.  And again, even if they did do it, Iglesias shouldn’t be the one to get that contract.  Sorry.  

Than it was ignorant not to trade him

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

your logic is flawed.  Any playoff team would rather have Iglesias to displace their worst pen guy.

Come the playoffs that worst pen guy comes in only in a blowout. They will ride their three best relievers to the end, the fringe guys don't matter as much because they will probably move a 5th starter to the pen. No team is going to give up really good prospects to rise the floor of their bullpen on a rental, that's dumb.

[Angels Fan Forever]

1 hour ago, stormngt said:

Than it was ignorant not to trade him

I believe MLB rules prevent Minasian from trading his owner...

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, stormngt said:

"Did not want to give up on the season"

We can't score a run against the team we are chasing in the WC.

Sorry but that is dumbass thinking.

I thought they would trade Iglesias. Maddon thought they would trade Iglesias.

I don’t know if the offers weren’t good or if Arte told him not to trade him or if they plan to extend him.

I think all of those are more likely than Minasian believing they have a realistic shot at the playoffs. I think it’s plausible that he could say that publicly as cover for one of the other three scenarios. 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Jeff Fletcher

[stormngt]

24 minutes ago, Angels Fan Forever said:

I believe MLB rules prevent Minasian from trading his owner...

Lol I was referring to Iglesias  but funny

[stormngt]

4 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I thought they would trade Iglesias. Maddon thought they would trade Iglesias.

I don’t know if the offers weren’t good or if Arte told him not to trade him or if they plan to extend him.

I think all of those are more likely than Minasian believing they have a realistic shot at the playoffs. I think it’s plausible that he could say that publicly as cover for one of the other three scenarios. 

True

[Docwaukee]

6 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I thought they would trade Iglesias. Maddon thought they would trade Iglesias.

I don’t know if the offers weren’t good or if Arte told him not to trade him or if they plan to extend him.

I think all of those are more likely than Minasian believing they have a realistic shot at the playoffs. I think it’s plausible that he could say that publicly as cover for one of the other three scenarios. 

If Minasian believes this team has a realistic shot at the playoffs then we might be in trouble going forward.  

[Stradling]

59 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Come the playoffs that worst pen guy comes in only in a blowout. They will ride their three best relievers to the end, the fringe guys don't matter as much because they will probably move a 5th starter to the pen. No team is going to give up really good prospects to rise the floor of their bullpen on a rental, that's dumb.

Iglesias is a top 3 reliever on virtually every team.