Don't Blame Swanson/Minasian

[Inside Pitch]

32 minutes ago, failos said:

But you can't deny how he's improved the farm system in Seattle, wins or not. I will never like Dipoto for bailing on the team, but he's not as bad as people say he is. I do wonder how he would've fared if he were given free reign as GM in Anaheim, but then again I'm not privy to what happens in the clubhouse/FO so I can't really judge. Perhaps he decimated the farm because Arte forced him too. Or maybe his improvement of the Mariners' farm is his way of learning from his mistakes in Anaheim.

Sure, he improved the farm system .... after gutting it .... and only after he gutted the MLB team.    What exactly is the point if not to actually win?   

Did we get a flag when the Angels had the number one ranked farm system in MLB?   How did Kotchman, D-Mac and Mathis turn out?   Kotch was ranked 5th overall by BBA, D-Mac 12th.   Numbers 1 and 2 that year were Delmon Young and Ian Stewart -- I think they combined for like maybe 8 bWAR for their careers.   

Farm rankings are nice, but when push comes to shove they mean nothing unless the team actually sees the potential realized and the wins come.   JD will always get a free pass by a lot of people in Anaheim mostly because he wasn't Mike Scioscia and because the man leaked self serving info left and right.   

Best of luck to him in Seattle and wherever else he may end up but he was awful here and the team is still paying for it.

 

 

[T.G.]

JD has the blood of a jackal.

[Inside Pitch]

20 minutes ago, ThisismineScios said:

I'd be more interested to hear how this compares to other teams. Does every other team have scouts in the stands at these college games? Going further, how does this compare to other teams that have hired a new GM this year? I mean NCAA games started within the last week, and HS seasons haven't even started yet. So if the Angels were having pro scouts scout NCAA games for the first week of games, is this really a big deal? If this lasts all year, it's a serious issue. If they're bringing them back in March? Or once Minasian can solidify his scouting department? Eh. They have until July 11-13 to analyze and scout guys. People ripped their cuts last year and they ended up with 3 good picks and 1 safe one. 

There are a ton of possible what ifs and logical possibilities why this situation is what it is -- we don't even know if it's true.  But, what we do know is the Angels famously cut guys loose while most everyone else kept their guys on.  I didn't really fault them for doing so at the time because there was nothing for them to do once the seasons were called off, but they haven't been this year .... are they really going to wait until AFTER they start to bring in area scouts?  If they have punted on the HS crop to focus on the college ranks, fine -- you don't really need guys at college games, you'll have all the video tape in the world, but area scouts do more than just watch games.  

Look, I'm not normally an alarmist, I tend to give the team the benefit of the doubt but Moreno going cheap in areas like this is not a new story..  As such, I've stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt.  Like I said in the thread title -- I won't be blaming Minasian or Swanson.

[Blarg]

3 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

That may be all it is -- prep games aren't being played really and there is a lot more being done via MLB's central scouting this year too -- but, it still reeks.   Hopefully it's a case of Minasian being allowed to hire his own people.

One other point is he brought all of his previous scouting data with him from his previous job. Cross checking with the data from the Angels side is probably creating a pretty clear idea what is out there, whether be college or high school. 

Still, traditional eyes on the field along with background checks concerning who the player really is and family is something they have to hire personal for. A lot of furloughed scouts are ready to go back to work. 

[DCAngelsFan]

1 hour ago, ThisismineScios said:

I'd be more interested to hear how this compares to other teams. Does every other team have scouts in the stands at these college games? Going further, how does this compare to other teams that have hired a new GM this year? I mean NCAA games started within the last week, and HS seasons haven't even started yet. So if the Angels were having pro scouts scout NCAA games for the first week of games, is this really a big deal? If this lasts all year, it's a serious issue. If they're bringing them back in March? Or once Minasian can solidify his scouting department? Eh. They have until July 11-13 to analyze and scout guys. People ripped their cuts last year and they ended up with 3 good picks and 1 safe one. 

 

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/theyre-the-model-how-the-dodgers-player-development-machine-rolls-on/

 

Anyone have a copy of the Baseball America Directory?  

Quote

The Dodgers employ 86 professional and amateur scouts, fourth most of any team according to the 2020 Baseball America Directory.

Between coordinators, coaches, analysts and directors, the Dodgers list 54 employees in player development, tied for seventh most in baseball.

They are one of only two organizations, along with the Red Sox, to rank in the top seven in both.

 

[Inside Pitch]

"The Dodgers employ 86 professional and amateur scouts, fourth most of any team according to the 2020 Baseball America Directory."

86 is more than 8 right?

[DCAngelsFan]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

"The Dodgers employ 86 professional and amateur scouts, fourth most of any team according to the 2020 Baseball America Directory."

86 is more than 8 right?

Well, I think the chat transcript said we had 8 amateur scouts - I mean, it's possible we employ 712 pro scouts - in which case, eff the Dodgers

But I'm willing to bet we're not in the top 4, or top 7 - my pool pick is #24th, overall.  

[tdawg87]

Arte is a cartoon villain.

[Angel Oracle]

8 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Arte is a cartoon villain.

[DCAngelsFan]

6 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Too funny - when I read read @tdawg's "cartoon villain" comment, that's precisely the image that came to mind.  

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

6 minutes ago, DCAngelsFan said:

Too funny - when I read read @tdawg's "cartoon villain" comment, that's precisely the image that came to mind.  

 

Same

[ThisismineScios]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

There are a ton of possible what ifs and logical possibilities why this situation is what it is -- we don't even know if it's true.  But, what we do know is the Angels famously cut guys loose while most everyone else kept their guys on.  I didn't really fault them for doing so at the time because there was nothing for them to do once the seasons were called off, but they haven't been this year .... are they really going to wait until AFTER they start to bring in area scouts?  If they have punted on the HS crop to focus on the college ranks, fine -- you don't really need guys at college games, you'll have all the video tape in the world, but area scouts do more than just watch games.  

Look, I'm not normally an alarmist, I tend to give the team the benefit of the doubt but Moreno going cheap in areas like this is not a new story..  As such, I've stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt.  Like I said in the thread title -- I won't be blaming Minasian or Swanson.

Yeah, I am not going to defend Arte in any way. Not what I'm getting at. The point is I'm not necessarily concerned at this moment by an anemic scouting department. Perry started a few months ago, so I'd like to see what type of system he builds. Eppler didn't bring in the kind of FO talent he did, so I imagine it took some money to get these guys to come and give them new titles. Perry should know how to build a scouting and development system (from observation not experience), as should the guys that spent time with the Dodgers/Jays/Brewers/Braves/Royals. I'm just choosing not to get upset by this until come mid-year we haven't replenished the scouts and cross-checkers.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

I think you would have to look at Arte's overall portfolio of businesses including the sign company, Halos, Land Acquisition, Property Group and anything else he has LLC wise. He will surround the S-Corp by the individual LLC's. And then look into the P&L's of each to look at the actual liquidity potential and cash on hand that he has to be able to fund salaries, and Halo potential of growth either on the scouting side to international growth etc. Even though we understand that everything is an expense that can be written off by the LLC's. Including purchasing land in Dominican Republic to build a top of the line baseball training facility and salaries of employees for it. Same goes for local and National Scouting.

I'm sure the advertising income side of the sign company has hit some issues with mass closures. That just opens them up to other potential advertisers and businesses. Probably at a discount.

Baseball took a hit in 2020. However, it is still a money generator. And you need to spend a little less/to the same on the on field talent than you would on the salary side on the suits and worker bee's. To be truly successful I would believe, it would be a close to maybe 50/50 to 60-FO/40-MLB Roster leaning to the Front Office compared to the MLB Roster. Future is less cost wise on the salary side, but cultivating it costs more than the 25 MAN roster salary wise. That's where the scouting and development side takes place and if you put more money into that side then you will have some lean years up top until your seeds germinate.

It's all relative and we've seen that Arte wants to win now. But, he also doesn't want to Blow his wad above the Tax. So, you are basically a middle run hoping for some bad stuff to go down with your Divisional opponents and something works out for you. ** Which we've seen**

Who knows? What's really going on.... Maybe, it's all a fuzzy sham? And no one really knows what is going on in his head. Including himself....Squirrel!!!

[tdawg87]

Just now, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

I think you would have to look at Arte's overall portfolio of businesses including the sign company, Halos, Land Acquisition, Property Group and anything else he has LLC wise. He will surround the S-Corp by the individual LLC's. And then look into the P&L's of each to look at the actual liquidity potential and cash on hand that he has to be able to fund salaries, and Halo potential of growth either on the scouting side to international growth etc. Even though we understand that everything is an expense that can be written off by the LLC's. Including purchasing land in Dominican Republic to build a top of the line baseball training facility and salaries of employees for it. Same goes for local and National Scouting.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

13 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

It's ok, business building is hard for some people to understand. Arte's setup is similar to the Trump LLC setup (all Big Business Men do it from Paul Allen, Bill Gates, Mark Cuban, Warren Buffet etc) surrounded by the S-Corp. It's all relative, in the end to how much he wants to take out of either his own pocket or another Company to place into the growth of the other and so on.

Which is why Carpino is in place he knows a lot about all the businesses and what Arte truly wants to do. He came with him when he bought the team.

[UndertheHalo]

Lol.  The thing I’m legit impressed with is how he managed to convince almost all of us that he was all about winning for almost 20 years.  This actually is a joke.  Jesus Christ.  
 

turns out Claude was more right then I think a lot of us are ready to admit yet.  

Edited February 23, 2021 by UndertheHalo

[Erstad Grit]

3 hours ago, failos said:

But you can't deny how he's improved the farm system in Seattle, wins or not. I will never like Dipoto for bailing on the team, but he's not as bad as people say he is. I do wonder how he would've fared if he were given free reign as GM in Anaheim, but then again I'm not privy to what happens in the clubhouse/FO so I can't really judge. Perhaps he decimated the farm because Arte forced him too. Or maybe his improvement of the Mariners' farm is his way of learning from his mistakes in Anaheim.

Great points.

Perhaps his blunders here taught him.

[Taylor]

I wonder what Arte Moreno's approval rating among fans is.

[AngelsFaninGA]

See this sort of thing at virtually every organization, including many I work with. Spend a ton of resources to bring in a flashy C-level hire to look good to investors, then promptly handcuff their budget and skimp on supporting staff. A handful of talented individuals can't run an organization by themselves

[tdawg87]

9 minutes ago, Taylor said:

I wonder what Arte Moreno's approval rating among fans is.

As long as they get relatively cheap beer and beach balls to bop around, they'll keep showing up.

[UndertheHalo]

You love to see that your favorite team with a fairly shitty farm system has spent a substantial amount of time short changing the scouting department in the run up to one of the most talent rich drafts ever.  Awesome.  
 

the Dodgers have ten times as many scout. Are my eyes working correctly ? Did I see that right ? 

[Taylor]

21 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

As long as they get relatively cheap beer and beach balls to bop around, they'll keep showing up.

Well yeah, the casual fans don't care. I'm talking about the "real" fans, like us!

[tdawg87]

Just now, Taylor said:

Well yeah, the casual fans don't care. I'm talking about the "real" fans, like us!

We don't move the needle.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

53 minutes ago, Taylor said:

I wonder what Arte Moreno's approval rating among fans is.

I think as long as he doesn't move the team! Or, trade Trout or do anything completely nutty. He will have a decent to meh overall approval rating by all casual and fanaticals in the fanbase.

[ThisismineScios]

Yeah, people see high payroll and his "involvement" in decision making and think he's one of the good owners.