Don't Blame Swanson/Minasian

[Inside Pitch]

... if the team takes a few steps backwards draft wise...

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/how-will-teams-approach-this-years-draft/

EL: I agree with that, it’s going to be a big year for the Area Scouts, especially in areas with lots of smaller colleges they can drive to. There are going to be some weird corner cases. Like I heard over the weekend that the Angels still haven’t brought back furloughed area scouts and their entire amateur staff is like eight people, so the pro scouts are chipping in on that side for them. I guess that’s Arte Moreno for you.

If this is true and not just rumor mill stuff.  Oy vey!

[Redondo]

So we bring in quite a few top quality guys for the FO and then we read stuff like this?

Have to hope this is not true.

I thought we were going to start focusing on the farm.

[DMVol]

Just never have understood going cheap on scouting...all but pulling out of Latin America under Reagins yet destroying the budget for a decade by signing Pujols and Hamilton is about the worst business model ever.....

[Docwaukee]

3 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

... if the team takes a few steps backwards draft wise...

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/how-will-teams-approach-this-years-draft/

EL: I agree with that, it’s going to be a big year for the Area Scouts, especially in areas with lots of smaller colleges they can drive to. There are going to be some weird corner cases. Like I heard over the weekend that the Angels still haven’t brought back furloughed area scouts and their entire amateur staff is like eight people, so the pro scouts are chipping in on that side for them. I guess that’s Arte Moreno for you.

If this is true and not just rumor mill stuff.  Oy vey!

If true I don't even know what to say or think.  I wonder if this is something @Jeff Fletcher can ask about?  

if there was ever a time to take advantage of other teams potentially doing less when the pool is likely larger than it's ever been then this is that year.  

The last comment about Arte is also very concerning.  Longenhagen seems to know what goes on pretty well within the industry and maybe he's just being a bit snide, but certainly implying that this is typical Moreno behavior.  

What a nut punch in so many ways.  

[Inside Pitch]

I keep saying that my beef with Arte is that he can't see the forest for the trees and stuff like this keeps making me think I'm not wrong.  And I very badly want to be wrong.

Hopefully Jeff can do some digging for us.

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I keep saying that my beef with Arte is that he can't see the forest for the trees and stuff like this keeps making me think I'm not wrong.  And I very badly want to be wrong.

Hopefully Jeff can do some digging for us.

penny wise pound foolish.  I've always been concerned that they squeeze every last drop of budget from other places in order to fund the major league roster.  Save a couple mil on scouting and development to afford Alex Cobb.  Would be so curious as to what the Angels budget is for that relative to other teams.  I'm making a lot of assumptions but we've gotten the sense on several occasions that they skimp in some of the most important areas in order to say that they've got a high payroll.  Perhaps it is a bit of a marketing ploy knowing that no one is privy to what is spend in other areas and the only number that's made public is payroll.  

[Inside Pitch]

9 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

penny wise pound foolish.  I've always been concerned that they squeeze every last drop of budget from other places in order to fund the major league roster.  Save a couple mil on scouting and development to afford Alex Cobb.  Would be so curious as to what the Angels budget is for that relative to other teams.  I'm making a lot of assumptions but we've gotten the sense on several occasions that they skimp in some of the most important areas in order to say that they've got a high payroll.  Perhaps it is a bit of a marketing ploy knowing that no one is privy to what is spend in other areas and the only number that's made public is payroll.  

It's stuff like this that fuels narratives like Arte simply being concerned with drawing crowds.   I mean, sure you keep adding names but if your skimping on the parts of the game that end up helping you win it's only a matter time where people will just lose interest.  There is just a bunch of stuff we can think up and run with that might not be based in any sort of reality but, people will go there and who can really blame them.. 

It's all very annoying and as someone that wants them to be consistent winner -- frustrating.

[Docwaukee]

4 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

It's stuff like this that fuels narratives like Arte simply being concerned with drawing crowds.   I mean, sure you keep adding names but if your skimping on the parts of the game that end up helping you win it's only a matter time where people will just lose interest.  There is just a bunch of stuff we can think up and run with that might not be based in any sort of reality but, people will go there and who can really blame them.. 

It's all very annoying and as someone that wants them to be consistent winner -- frustrating.

you have to break the cycle at some point.  Some of us are sitting here hoping that he adds an extra 10 or 15 mil is payroll and not only does that not happen, but we learn that he's cutting corners in other areas just to get the the budget to where we can have the same major league payroll as we did last year.  And how many years has he been doing that?  Putting less into what is going to help for the future.  How does he not see that the org is now feeling those corners being cut?

I can understand doing it early when he first took over and then realizing it's not the way to go but to hear that it's still happening is just demoralizing.  That's just years of lost opportunity.  UGH!!

[bloodbrother]

Hasn't this been an issue for years? It's been one of the gripes dating back to the Dipoto era. Angels still aren't even much of a presence in Latin America, though they seem to slowly be trying to fix that over the last handful of years. After having so much success in that area under Stoneman, it's been a pipeline that's largely been cut off for the Angels for way too long

[Inside Pitch]

25 minutes ago, bloodbrother said:

Hasn't this been an issue for years? It's been one of the gripes dating back to the Dipoto era. Angels still aren't even much of a presence in Latin America, though they seem to slowly be trying to fix that over the last handful of years. After having so much success in that area under Stoneman, it's been a pipeline that's largely been cut off for the Angels for way too long

No.  JD was allowed to punt everyone they had and bring in all his boys.   Eppler was also able to add scouts, they just have never returned to the numbers they had prior to JD's purge as far as I have heard..   

As far as Latin America goes -- the Angels spent the maximum they could every year of Eppler's run.   But there was very little investment there between the Clay Daniel fiasco and Eppler and despite how little was done there both Suarez and Barria came into the system in those years.   Just goes to show how much possible talent they pissed away those 5+ years.

Some of this may be because they moved to more analytics -- but...  Cmon.  At this point they are just operating at levels below what they previously had and at what is just embarrassing for a team with the Angels revenue

[DCAngelsFan]

47 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

It's stuff like this that fuels narratives like Arte simply being concerned with drawing crowds.   I mean, sure you keep adding names but if your skimping on the parts of the game that end up helping you win it's only a matter time where people will just lose interest.  There is just a bunch of stuff we can think up and run with that might not be based in any sort of reality but, people will go there and who can really blame them.. 

It's all very annoying and as someone that wants them to be consistent winner -- frustrating.

In addition to the little fragments of stories like this that occasionally leak out is the overall poor performance of drafting/development of the team.  

At best, we've been average - "average" or "mediocre" doesn't get your crowned World Series champs.

I've long suspected that Arte has underfunded this aspect of the team - putting minimal resources into the nuts and bolts of the team.

We've already discussed the org charts of the Angels vs. the Dodgers - their ops side is full of baseball people - the Angels have a few "MBA" types.  

I hate to say it, but Arte seems to have more in common with owners like Peter Angelos and Dan Snyder than Guggenheim

 

[nate]

Arte is a scumbag, just sell the team already.

[failos]

Dipoto redeemed

[Inside Pitch]

7 minutes ago, failos said:

Dipoto redeemed

Not sure how you came to that conclusion given he was the only guy given free reign to completely redo and reorganize the scouting department, but ok.

[Taylor]

10 minutes ago, nate said:

Arte is a scumbag, just sell the team already.

He needs to squeeze a few more pennies first.

[failos]

21 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Not sure how you came to that conclusion given he was the only guy given free reign to completely redo and reorganize the scouting department, but ok.

Because I wanted to say something controversial and since he’s doing a great job with the farm in Seattle.

[Angel Oracle]

Arte seems to want only chicks at the games.   It’s all about big offense.   Most recent good established starting pitcher acquired was Greinke, TEN years ago.  And he only had two months left on contract.

His advertising emphasis TOTALLY ignores what is needed for long term success.   Scouting and development, seemingly foreign words to him.

I’m finding myself wishing that someone like Ballmer makes him an offer he can’t refuse.  

Ballmer would love to stick it to Guggenheim, and would hopefully combine his much greater net worth vs Arte Moreno with the smarts to use a little of his massive wealth to build a farm that ultimately matches the Dogs, all while winning on the field too.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[Blarg]

With all of the minor leagues, college and high school baseball shut down for a year, there really wasn't much to scout. There are still lots of high schools not running programs this year. Why they haven't ramped up since the NCAA has started the season is questionable. Minasian has to have the green light to employ scouts but are they foregoing that for statcast data until they think there is a need? Have they already built their draft board and are content with that? Maybe @Jeff Fletcher can get a few answers while he's in Tempe. 

[eligrba]

Need more info than "heard something" before I over-react.

[Inside Pitch]

9 minutes ago, Blarg said:

With all of the minor leagues, college and high school baseball shut down for a year, there really wasn't much to scout. There are still lots of high schools not running programs this year. Why they haven't ramped up since the NCAA has started the season is questionable. Minasian has to have the green light to employ scouts but are they foregoing that for statcast data until they think there is a need? Have they already built their draft board and are content with that? Maybe @Jeff Fletcher can get a few answers while he's in Tempe. 

That may be all it is -- prep games aren't being played really and there is a lot more being done via MLB's central scouting this year too -- but, it still reeks.   Hopefully it's a case of Minasian being allowed to hire his own people.

[Inside Pitch]

15 minutes ago, failos said:

Because I wanted to say something controversial and since he’s doing a great job with the farm in Seattle.

He will have done a great job once the hype translates into wins.  I do give him props for taking advantage of the Mets.... their fans will never let that one go.  

[Angel Oracle]

5 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

He will have done a great job once the hype translates into wins.  I do give him props for taking advantage of the Mets.... their fans will never let that one go.  

Imagine if the Mets had kept those prospects, with the pitching staff they have plus Alonso/Conforto/McNeil.

McNeil

 

 

49er

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[Taylor]

I think at least four more of us need to tag Jeff Fletcher in this thread.

[failos]

14 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

He will have done a great job once the hype translates into wins.  I do give him props for taking advantage of the Mets.... their fans will never let that one go.  

But you can't deny how he's improved the farm system in Seattle, wins or not. I will never like Dipoto for bailing on the team, but he's not as bad as people say he is. I do wonder how he would've fared if he were given free reign as GM in Anaheim, but then again I'm not privy to what happens in the clubhouse/FO so I can't really judge. Perhaps he decimated the farm because Arte forced him too. Or maybe his improvement of the Mariners' farm is his way of learning from his mistakes in Anaheim.

[ThisismineScios]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

That may be all it is -- prep games aren't being played really and there is a lot more being done via MLB's central scouting this year too -- but, it still reeks.   Hopefully it's a case of Minasian being allowed to hire his own people.

I'd be more interested to hear how this compares to other teams. Does every other team have scouts in the stands at these college games? Going further, how does this compare to other teams that have hired a new GM this year? I mean NCAA games started within the last week, and HS seasons haven't even started yet. So if the Angels were having pro scouts scout NCAA games for the first week of games, is this really a big deal? If this lasts all year, it's a serious issue. If they're bringing them back in March? Or once Minasian can solidify his scouting department? Eh. They have until July 11-13 to analyze and scout guys. People ripped their cuts last year and they ended up with 3 good picks and 1 safe one.