Minasian and the rotation.

[tdawg87]

The Cobb trade severely lowered my seratonin levels.

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

The Cobb trade severely lowered my seratonin levels.

But on the plus side they raised your estrogen levels. 

[eligrba]

24 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

If this were true and it were logical then we'd be better off trading our farm system for known assets.  Just because a player is known, doesn't mean they're good.  

Jones wasn't such a loss.  He was a mediocre prospect.  

Cobb isn't very good.  You posted a bunch of stats to sorta try and make him seem better, but honestly most of it didn't really make a ton of sense.  

so it's a combo of things.  Cobb isn't good.  Other guys who are likely better were available for a few mil more.  Saving money on Cobb didn't allow the halos to afford anything else.  Cobb likely blocks or takes innings from a better pitcher and it's cost a prospect when we could have gotten a shitty 'known' asset by just grabbing a free agent.  

If Cobb does well this year it's either that Minasian is a better GM than almost everyone else or it was pretty much just dumb luck.  

I'm not arguing that it was a good deal or Cobb is better than other options.  It was certainly a disappointing deal.  In this case,  a known mediocre entity might be an improvement over the previous hopeful gambles. I don't know how Cobb will do but I guess we will all find out together. 

[Angels 1961]

12 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

The Cobb trade severely lowered my seratonin levels.

When you go watch Cobb pitch you will need extra bag of peanuts will help

[mmc]

Don't people think that if Minasian seriously could've gotten a better player in return for Jones, that he would've?  To me that trade was an indicator that he wasn't very highly regarded around the league.

[Stradling]

Just now, mmc said:

Don't people think that if Minasian seriously could've gotten a better player in return for Jones, that he would've?  To me that trade was an indicator that he wasn't very highly regarded around the league.

Yep, somehow most grasp that when trades happen. Eppler got a lot of shit for trading La Stella and only getting Barreto.  No GM turns down better returns.  It’s ignorant to think that. 

[tdawg87]

That's making the assumption that they were shopping Jones, which doesn't make any sense. 

The target was Cobb, not getting rid of Jones.

[stormngt]

On 2/13/2021 at 11:29 AM, tdawg87 said:

Alright let's just get this out of the way: I do not like the SP acquisitions this offseason. Quintana is fine, but Cobb is gonna have to pitch much better than he has for me to understand that trade. As of now, it's an absolute ball scratcher.

That said, I think he's looking at what happened last year at the back of the rotation as well as the depth. He's also banking on significant improvement from Ohtani.

The Angels used 10 starting pitchers in 2020. Teheran, Ohtani, Suarez, Peters, and Andriese all combined for 15 starts. That's 1/4 of the season. 

They had an 12.29 ERA. And that's with Andriese giving up 0 runs over 5.2 innings.

The other five, Bundy, Heaney, Canning, Sandoval, and Barria had a *4.22 ERA. That would have been good for 12th in baseball, and 5th in the AL. The 5 starters I mentioned in the previous paragraph, including Ohtani, took the rotation from being above average to the 2nd worst in baseball. This is despite only making 1/4 of the starts. That's how fucking bad they were.

[*is based on overall ERA for GS, Barria and Sandoval made "relief" appearances.]

So, lets say the rotation this year is Bundy, Heaney, Quintana, Canning, Cobb, Ohtani. Quintana replaces Sandoval, who put up a 6.75 ERA. I'm going out on a limb and say Quintana pitches better than that. 

Cobb replaces Teheran and his 10.73 ERA as a starter. Even if Cobb sucks and has a 5.00 ERA, that's a pretty significant improvement. 

Anyway, I'm done with stats. My point is I kind of get what Minasian is doing this year: He's strengthening the back end and the depth so when we need 4-5 starters to pitch in a quarter of the games this year, it won't be so devastating. 

I lied, I'm not done with stats. 

Let's say we need 10 starters again, and the 4-5 "back up" guys suck and combine for a 7.00 ERA. Let's also say the main rotation doesn't improve and keeps the 4.22 ERA. That would give the rotation a 4.59 ERA, which would have been 18th in baseball and 9th in the AL. Is that good? Of course not, but I'm assuming the rotation sees no improvement and the depth sucks, just not quite as hard as 2020. And that's still overall much, much better than 2020.

Minasian isn't just trying to improve that 4.22 ERA with Quintana, he's trying to improve the fucking 12.29 ERA with Cobb and a healthy Ohtani. Barria will take starts away from Suarez, and Sandoval will make sure Peters never sees another inning. 

The rotation won't be good, barring some incredible performances. But it could be average, which is so ridiculously better than last year it's not even funny.

Here's some boobs for reading my shit:

My concern is Cobb taking starts away from Barria.

[tdawg87]

Just now, stormngt said:

My concern is Cobb taking starts away from Barria.

That's a valid concern. Obviously Minasian and/or Maddon don't think that's a problem. I hope they're right.

[Angels 1961]

Minasian should bring Angels pitcher of year for 2014 and 2017. Get them cheap

[eligrba]

1 hour ago, stormngt said:

My concern is Cobb taking starts away from Barria.

Either Canning or Heaney will resolve your concern by the end of April.

[Stradling]

21 minutes ago, eligrba said:

Either Canning or Heaney will resolve your concern by the end of April.

That’s the spirit. 

[Stradling]

I personally would do everything in my power to have Barria start the year in the rotation or trade him.  There’s no clear path to keeping him stretched out if he’s working out of the pen.  And so if he goes from pen to the rotation then his first start or two back in the rotation are essentially bullpen games which ruins the team for days if you don’t have a couple of guys that can pitch deep into games.  That coupled with Maddon’s propensity to pull starters early is a recipe for prolonged slumps and blown out bullpens. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

54 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I personally would do everything in my power to have Barria start the year in the rotation or trade him.  There’s no clear path to keeping him stretched out if he’s working out of the pen.  And so if he goes from pen to the rotation then his first start or two back in the rotation are essentially bullpen games which ruins the team for days if you don’t have a couple of guys that can pitch deep into games.  That coupled with Maddon’s propensity to pull starters early is a recipe for prolonged slumps and blown out bullpens. 

I could be wrong but I'm going to guess they use him in tandem with Ohtani starts, assuming everyone is healthy at the start of the season. 

[stormngt]

57 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I personally would do everything in my power to have Barria start the year in the rotation or trade him.  There’s no clear path to keeping him stretched out if he’s working out of the pen.  And so if he goes from pen to the rotation then his first start or two back in the rotation are essentially bullpen games which ruins the team for days if you don’t have a couple of guys that can pitch deep into games.  That coupled with Maddon’s propensity to pull starters early is a recipe for prolonged slumps and blown out bullpens. 

Also, Barria really struggled out of the pen in 2019.  And struggled with a starter.

Edited February 14, 2021 by stormngt

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, stormngt said:

Also, Barria really struggled out of the pen in 2019.  And struggled with a starter.

I look at Barria in 2019 as a throw away year.  

[Pancake Bear]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I look at Barria in 2019 as a throw away year.  

Yep. Doug White screwed him up. Look at 2018 and 2020 when he didn't have White and you'll see the real Barria. 

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

Yep, somehow most grasp that when trades happen. Eppler got a lot of shit for trading La Stella and only getting Barreto.  No GM turns down better returns.  It’s ignorant to think that. 

giving up anything to get Cobb was the mistake.  

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

giving up anything to get Cobb was the mistake.  

Probably.  I still want to see how much we are paying him this season.  

[Angels 1961]

34 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Also, Barria really struggled out of the pen in 2019.  And struggled with a starter.

That's because after having a very good 2018 Eppler signs Cahill and Harvey. Barria started year in minors and messed with his head.

[Angels 1961]

27 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Yep. Doug White screwed him up. Look at 2018 and 2020 when he didn't have White and you'll see the real Barria. 

I blame Eppler signings of Cahill and Harvey so Barria started 19 in minors. They screwed with his head.

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

That’s the spirit. 

I feel an injury will happen in spring to one of the starters or some kind of set back.

[T.G.]

3 hours ago, mmc said:

Don't people think that if Minasian seriously could've gotten a better player in return for Jones, that he would've?  To me that trade was an indicator that he wasn't very highly regarded around the league.

Welcome to another episode of “AW knows best.”

[BTH]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

I personally would do everything in my power to have Barria start the year in the rotation or trade him.  There’s no clear path to keeping him stretched out if he’s working out of the pen.  And so if he goes from pen to the rotation then his first start or two back in the rotation are essentially bullpen games which ruins the team for days if you don’t have a couple of guys that can pitch deep into games.  That coupled with Maddon’s propensity to pull starters early is a recipe for prolonged slumps and blown out bullpens. 

I personally don't think getting Barria a spot in the rotation will be that difficult.

The odds that every Angels SP ahead of Barria makes it through Spring Trianing healthy/ready to go for Opening Day is pretty low. Someone always gets hurt, has some soreness, or has some delay.

One other potential delay for this upcoming season is if someone tests positive and can't start ST from the beginning. That may result in them starting the season on the IL, which is exactly what happened with Julio Teheran last season.

[Stradling]

34 minutes ago, Trendon said:

I personally don't think getting Barria a spot in the rotation will be that difficult.

The odds that every Angels SP ahead of Barria makes it through Spring Trianing healthy/ready to go for Opening Day is pretty low. Someone always gets hurt, has some soreness, or has some delay.

One other potential delay for this upcoming season is if someone tests positive and can't start ST from the beginning. That may result in them starting the season on the IL, which is exactly what happened with Julio Teheran last season.

And when everyone is healthy then my concerns still apply.