Trade candidates: Gray, Ray, Mets SP...

[failos]

4 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

How about Lester? Cubs want to shed and Darvish said he's not waiving his no trade.

How about Greg Maddux?

[ten ocho recon scout]

14 hours ago, failos said:

What about _____?

Lee?

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Lee?

This was awesome.

[Docwaukee]

how I feel when I hear the name Homer Bailey:

[totdprods]

2 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

How about Lester? Cubs want to shed and Darvish said he's not waiving his no trade.

I mentioned on another thread Heaney for Lester and Quintana.

Angels get 60 GS/360 IP of 4.00 ERA SPs to lock in the rotation on one year deals and $30m salary. Cubs free up salary space to shop in the deep FA 2B, OF, and #5 SP markets. Maybe the Angels kick in someone like Barria/Peters for the Cubs to kick in $10m or so.

[Mark68]

On 12/15/2019 at 7:03 PM, totdprods said:

They’re not gonna have much room to be choosy. Ray has some upside at least and strikeout stuff that Eppler likes. 

Also by acquiring three SPs this winter, Angels ideally get a deeper, more rested pen with a lot more pitchers capable of going multiple innings. 

5.2 IP is probably more than any Halo managed last year either. 

Exactly two Halos averaged 5.28 IP/start: Heaney & Skaggs (RIP). Canning averaged 5.18.

[Mark68]

I think getting Jon Gray could be doable, especially if we agree to take on a bad contract from the Rockies (take your pick of relievers or Ian Desmond). Not sure if the Rockies would be open to trading Gray yet, as they think they can compete this year. This is why adding the bad contract would be important, because they are also trying to shed payroll to give themselves some flexibility. 

Now, this scenario may be more likely closer to the trade deadline, because I don't think the Rox will do as well as they believe. So if it doesn't happen now, there is no reason it couldn't happen later this upcoming season...

[totdprods]

15 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

Exactly two Halos averaged 5.28 IP/start: Heaney & Skaggs (RIP). Canning averaged 5.18.

Okay then, so Ray was as good as getting deep into games as our three best SPs last year. Still don't see how he isn't a big improvement over our options.

Robbie Ray (28): 140 GS, 28 GS/150 IP per year, last five years.
Andrew Heaney (29): 72 GS, 14 GS/82 IP per year, last five years. 
Dallas Keuchel (32): 145 GS, 29 GS/190 IP per year last five years (prior to '19's half-season due to contract) 
Hyun-Jin Ryu (33): 95 GS, 19 GS/110 IP per year, last five years

He might throw fewer innings, but he's younger than Heaney (as a comparison), more durable than Heaney and Ryu, and as durable as Keuchel, only lacking in IP. National League affects that a little bit too. 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by totdprods

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Okay then, so Ray was as good as getting deep into games as our three best SPs last year. Still don't see how he isn't a big improvement over our options.

Robbie Ray (28): 140 GS, 28 GS/150 IP per year, last five years.
Andrew Heaney (29): 72 GS, 14 GS/82 IP per year, last five years. 
Dallas Keuchel (32): 145 GS, 29 GS/190 IP per year last five years (prior to '19's half-season due to contract) 
Hyun-Jin Ryu (33): 95 GS, 19 GS/110 IP per year, last five years

He might throw fewer innings, but he's younger than Heaney (as a comparison), more durable than Heaney and Ryu, and as durable as Keuchel, only lacking in IP. National League affects that a little bit too. 

 

he would be an improvement but at what cost?  asking price is apparently higher than Kluber and for one year of club control.  That's absurd.  

[totdprods]

5 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

he would be an improvement but at what cost?  asking price is apparently higher than Kluber and for one year of club control.  That's absurd.  

Well, I was bringing him up before that cost was reported. Yes, if the price is higher than Cleveland’s ask for Marsh, there’s no way I make that trade. 

Also, which Kluber cost? The one that was asked from the Angels, or the one he was actually traded for?

If the cost is higher than the fairly light Clase and DeShields return, they might be able to work something out. 

Arizona has some need for an OF, maybe Goodwin could be part of a return. Not the main piece but maybe a piece. Angels can explore Kole on a 1-year. 

[Docwaukee]

13 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Well, I was bringing him up before that cost was reported. Yes, if the price is higher than Cleveland’s ask for Marsh, there’s no way I make that trade. 

Also, which Kluber cost? The one that was asked from the Angels, or the one he was actually traded for?

If the cost is higher than the fairly light Clase and DeShields return, they might be able to work something out. 

Arizona has some need for an OF, maybe Goodwin could be part of a return. Not the main piece but maybe a piece. Angels can explore Kole on a 1-year. 

the one asked of the Angels because that's what it would have cost them.  trades for guys who have one year of control are utterly stupid.  plus, he's an upgrade but really not that great.  dude has averaged 1.5 WAR over the last two seasons with about 150ip.  I just don't get the infatuation with him.  FIP of 4.00.  he's a #3 at best.  The K rate is sexy but so what.  

[totdprods]

10 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

the one asked of the Angels because that's what it would have cost them.  trades for guys who have one year of control are utterly stupid.  plus, he's an upgrade but really not that great.  dude has averaged 1.5 WAR over the last two seasons with about 150ip.  I just don't get the infatuation with him.  FIP of 4.00.  he's a #3 at best.  The K rate is sexy but so what.  

It gets back to trusting Eppler. He hasn't made a trade yet that's really burned us. Some of the rentals he's gotten have sucked, but we haven't given up anything that's really hurt us. Eppler deals for rentals pretty damn often and seems to prefer having the roster flexibility so I believe that automatically puts any rental on a short list.

If he swings a deal for Ray I'm going to assume it will be for a fair price.

A perfect pitching option, much less combo, is pretty hard to visualize for the Halos right now. Everyone realistically available to require is going to have some major concern. Salary, prospect cost, durability, upside...

Edited December 18, 2019 by totdprods

[Mark68]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

Okay then, so Ray was as good as getting deep into games as our three best SPs last year. Still don't see how he isn't a big improvement over our options.

Robbie Ray (28): 140 GS, 28 GS/150 IP per year, last five years.
Andrew Heaney (29): 72 GS, 14 GS/82 IP per year, last five years. 
Dallas Keuchel (32): 145 GS, 29 GS/190 IP per year last five years (prior to '19's half-season due to contract) 
Hyun-Jin Ryu (33): 95 GS, 19 GS/110 IP per year, last five years

He might throw fewer innings, but he's younger than Heaney (as a comparison), more durable than Heaney and Ryu, and as durable as Keuchel, only lacking in IP. National League affects that a little bit too. 

 

Ray isn't going to pitch those innings with any more quality than our starters did last year, so is that really an improvement? He's basically Dylan Bundy. We already have one of those. 

By comparison, Ryu averaged 6.28 IP/start in 2019, Keuchel averaged 5.9, Gray averaged 5.97, Syndergaard averaged 6.16 & Stroman averaged 5.75. 

All of them would be much better than what we rolled out to the mound last year, both in stats and length of starts. 

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, Mark68 said:

Ray isn't going to pitch those innings with any more quality than our starters did last year, so is that really an improvement? He's basically Dylan Bundy. We already have one of those. 

By comparison, Ryu averaged 6.28 IP/start in 2019, Keuchel averaged 5.9, Gray averaged 5.97, Syndergaard averaged 6.16 & Stroman averaged 5.75. 

All of them would be much better than what we rolled out to the mount last year, both in stats and length of starts. 

We could use more. Our rotation is currently Ohtani, Heaney, Bundy, Canning and...Barria? With Suarez/Peters/Sandoval as the #6? Rookies, innings limits, and question marks in Heaney/Bundy.

If innings pitched per start is the only requirement we're looking for, sure those options are better, but I don't think that's the highest priority.

The three most pressing characteristics we need for a SP right now are, in no order, durability, affordability, and upside.

Whoever hits the highest on those three marks is our target. Ray has some upside being one of the younger arms available. He's been durable. The question mark is his affordability. The salary is reasonable. The control is only a year, so that stings. Maybe that also lessens his cost.

[Angel Oracle]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 11:23 AM, tdawg87 said:

More like Joe Mustgroove

21 HRs in 170 innings (2019) isn't bad at all, granted the Pirates stadium is a pitching friendly place.   Career 4.37 is a little high. 

Musgrove is kind of intriguing.   DO NOT take on Archer's salary though ($9 million), 4.75 ERA and 1.40 WHIP the past 2 seasons, only 268 innings pitched. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Angel Oracle

[Mark68]

12 minutes ago, totdprods said:

We could use more. Our rotation is currently Ohtani, Heaney, Bundy, Canning and...Barria? With Suarez/Peters/Sandoval as the #6? Rookies, innings limits, and question marks in Heaney/Bundy.

If innings pitched per start is the only requirement we're looking for, sure those options are better, but I don't think that's the highest priority.

The three most pressing characteristics we need for a SP right now are, in no order, durability, affordability, and upside.

Whoever hits the highest on those three marks is our target. Ray has some upside being one of the younger arms available. He's been durable. The question mark is his affordability. The salary is reasonable. The control is only a year, so that stings. Maybe that also lessens his cost.

No. We do not need more Bundys. He's a #4. We have those, in spades. You apparently overlooked my last line, which pointed out that the other options provide better stats in addition to length. 

[totdprods]

18 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

No. We do not need more Bundys. He's a #4. We have those, in spades. You apparently overlooked my last line, which pointed out that the other options provide better stats in addition to length. 

No, we do not. 

We have one #4, Bundy, and a bunch of pitchers who haven’t put up a even a Bundy season once with the exception of Heaney’s 2018. So maybe we have two #4s.

We have Heaney, Bundy, a SP who at most gives us 25 GS/150 IP in Ohtani, and a quintet of prospects (counting Peters) who might be #4s, might be #2s, or might be #6s/not-ready AAA pitchers like they were last year.

If we had spades of #4s, we wouldn’t have been the first team in over a century fail to have any SP make 20 starts.

Syndergaard costs you Marsh, almost certainly. Ray and Stroman probably don’t. Gray might. Keuchel and Ryu don’t cost you any prospects, but they might cost you $20m+ in 2021, 2022, and 2023, when those aforementioned prospects should be able to throw at least #4 quality innings for minimum by then. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by totdprods

[ettin]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

the one asked of the Angels because that's what it would have cost them.  trades for guys who have one year of control are utterly stupid.  plus, he's an upgrade but really not that great.  dude has averaged 1.5 WAR over the last two seasons with about 150ip.  I just don't get the infatuation with him.  FIP of 4.00.  he's a #3 at best.  The K rate is sexy but so what.  

This seems like an overly harsh statement. If the price is right, bringing on a guy for one season seems perfectly legit, but it all depends on the price.

[Dtwncbad]

Not saying he is available, but just asking. . . 
 

What would you be willing to give up for Blake Snell?

[Dtwncbad]

On 12/15/2019 at 4:48 PM, Lou said:

I'm starting to get the feeling that we're going to trade for a pitcher nobody has mentioned that won’t make a difference.

More realistic?

(for the record, I am just clowning)

[T.G.]

53 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Not saying he is available, but just asking. . . 
 

What would you be willing to give up for Blake Snell?

At least Marsh.

[Dtwncbad]

28 minutes ago, True Grich said:

At least Marsh.

I would trade three Marshes for him.

[Stradling]

19 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I would trade three Marshes for him.

So Adell and Marsh?

[Dtwncbad]

Just now, Stradling said:

So Adell and Marsh?

No, clone two more Marshes so you have three Marshes.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

No, clone two more Marshes so you have three Marshes.

Ok, so we can make the trade after we draft a few more guys in the top 50 of the prospect rankings.