Trade candidates: Gray, Ray, Mets SP...

[UndertheHalo]

I’m a fan of bringing Grey on as well.  It does seem like the prices for these guys are pretty wild right now.   I think we need to resign ourselves to the reality that we may only get 1 guy.  

[Docwaukee]

9 minutes ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

Are we really turning up our noses on Robbie Ray? He is a better pitcher than Andrew Heaney.

I doubt Ray would cost much.

5.2 innings in the NL probably translates to 6+ innings in the AL.

5.1 innings and no one is turning their nose up.  If he were a FA it would be a nice option.  Not giving up 6 years of control of a starting 2bman for a 1yr rental

[ettin]

4 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I’ve seen the gamut of opinions on Rengifos bat you seem to hold the conservative view.  Which is fair enough.  He held his own in the majors.  Can play several positions and is pre arb.  This has a lot of value.  However you think of him, the arrow is pointed up given his previous 2 seasons.  How far that takes him.  I don’t know.  But major league regular definitley seems like a reasonable outcome.  Probably as likely as bench piece at this point.  It all depends on who’s doing the evaluating I guess. 
 

To further my point.  Literally the trade today for Kluber with the way Cleveland valued Clase.

It is not so much my view but what he has actually shown to-date. I think there is more potential with him as he develops its just the way the market would value him right now. If a team wants him for SS that might improve his value a bit but it seems like he is a better fit at 2B. A team like the Diamondbacks could use a player like him to back up Ahmed for depth and to actually play 2B. The good news is that his left-handed bat against RHP plays fairly well and yes he is an above average defender at 2B to boot. So he has value.

In fact if you believe he will produce over his six years of control he actually has a lot of surplus value. But because he is still a bit untested at the Major League level he will not get full credit for a projection that is unsure and has to much variation in outcomes at this particular moment in time. If he comes out and improves on his previous season in 2020 his value will increase appropriately.

I guess what I am saying is that I am not down on him, just viewing his current value in what I believe is the correct light at the moment.

[ettin]

8 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

5.1 innings and no one is turning their nose up.  If he were a FA it would be a nice option.  Not giving up 6 years of control of a starting 2bman for a 1yr rental

I guess we are not the Dodgers then?

[BackUpTheTruck]

9 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I’m a fan of bringing Grey on as well.  It does seem like the prices for these guys are pretty wild right now.   I think we need to resign ourselves to the reality that we may only get 1 guy.  

If it has to be one guy, it should be Keuchel IMO.

[BackUpTheTruck]

15 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

5.1 innings and no one is turning their nose up.  If he were a FA it would be a nice option.  Not giving up 6 years of control of a starting 2bman for a 1yr rental

I was thinking more along the lines of a fourth outfielder and an unproven relief pitcher like in the Kluber deal.

Yes, Rengifo for Ray would be a bad trade for us.

Rengifo for Gray, I would consider.

[Docwaukee]

I'd take Cueto before Price.  

[AngelStew43]

34 minutes ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

I was thinking more along the lines of a fourth outfielder and an unproven relief pitcher like in the Kluber deal.

Yes, Rengifo for Ray would be a bad trade for us.

Rengifo for Gray, I would consider.

I think that Ray for Rengifo would be a GOOD trade for us.  We have Simmons at SS, Fletcher and LaStella at 2B/Utility.  Even with the 26 man roster, one of the 2B candidates will be sent to SLC.  That is in addition to the minor league depth we have, Jones, Maitan, Rivas, etc.  If we can swap Rengifo for Robbie Ray, we should do it. We can always draft another toolsy middle infielder in June, if necessary.

[ettin]

All that I am saying is that Eppler loves high K/9 rates and Robbie Ray, from 2017-2019, is ranked 3rd out of all Qualified Starters with a 12.09 K/9 rate, behind only Chris Sale (1st) and Max Scherzer (2nd). That is across 459.3 IP which is an average of 153.1 IP per season. So yes the outings are a little shorter than you would like to see but you will be hard pressed to find any available pitchers who can even come close to his strikeout ability.

Is he perfect? Nope. He has a walk problem and a home run problem. He gets lefties out better than he does righties. I like him because he will not cost as much as some acquisitions for the type of ability he brings. The Angels could invest in Boyd for example who also has a high K/9 rate but that will cost us more for his three years of control.

There are other options beyond Ray too I am not wildly advocating for him. Rich Hill would still be a good pickup as others have suggested here. Archer, Price, and Darvish have elevated K/9 rates too in addition to Hill. There are still routes to be pursued here it is just finding the right fit and price and Eppler has made it clear he is looking for value. For Billy that seems to equate to finding a trade partner that will not demand Adell and Marsh in trade discussions (among other players and prospects probably).

[Pancake Bear]

5 minutes ago, ettin said:

All that I am saying is that Eppler loves high K/9 rates

Boyd fits that also. 

[SoWhat]

I hope Eppler stays far away from Robbie Ray. His game has fallen off a cliff the past two seasons, dig into the numbers and you’ll come to your senses. 

[SoWhat]

16 minutes ago, ettin said:

All that I am saying is that Eppler loves high K/9 rates and Robbie Ray, from 2017-2019, is ranked 3rd out of all Qualified Starters with a 12.09 K/9 rate, behind only Chris Sale (1st) and Max Scherzer (2nd). That is across 459.3 IP which is an average of 153.1 IP per season. So yes the outings are a little shorter than you would like to see but you will be hard pressed to find any available pitchers who can even come close to his strikeout ability.

Is he perfect? Nope. He has a walk problem and a home run problem. He gets lefties out better than he does righties. I like him because he will not cost as much as some acquisitions for the type of ability he brings. The Angels could invest in Boyd for example who also has a high K/9 rate but that will cost us more for his three years of control.

There are other options beyond Ray too I am not wildly advocating for him. Rich Hill would still be a good pickup as others have suggested here. Archer, Price, and Darvish have elevated K/9 rates too in addition to Hill. There are still routes to be pursued here it is just finding the right fit and price and Eppler has made it clear he is looking for value. For Billy that seems to equate to finding a trade partner that will not demand Adell and Marsh in trade discussions (among other players and prospects probably).

Besides the strikeouts there’s not much else that I like from Ray. The past two seasons he’s barely been above league average (104 ERA+)  his velo has dropped from mid 90’s to low 90’s, his BB/9 jumped from an average of 3.5 to 4.7, hard hit % jumped up close to 10 points, barely averages over 5 IP/G. Eppler can do better, at least I hope so lol  

[UnrulyManBun27]

Eppler needs to find guys that can give this team innings. Bumgarner was the best bet to do that, and he let him sign somewhere else for 17 mil AAV. Kluber, if he comes back close to healthy, is another bulldog who has always given his teams 200+ innings.

This team needs guys who can be reliably counted on to give the team 6+ innings a start, and reliably be counted on to make starts.

At this point I'm worried we are going to overpay for either Ryu or Ray. We don't need to pay $20-25 mil AAV for a guy who has thrown 150+ innings once since 2014. I love Ray's K rate, but his BB rate and the frequency of short outings makes me really nervous. Most of all, I'm nervous we aren't going to get any pitching this offseason. I can't really stand the idea of trying to watch another season where our only pitcher to throw 100+ innings has a 6 ERA and gets sent to the bullpen.

[Lou]

6 minutes ago, UnrulyManBun27 said:

Eppler needs to find guys that can give this team innings. Bumgarner was the best bet to do that, and he let him sign somewhere else for 17 mil AAV.

let him?

[ukyah]

6 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Marsh, Rengifo, Sandoval, and Buttrey for deGrom and Cespedes.

 

why do so many keep acting like the mets are going to trade their starters? they've said they're not going to, and they've behaved like a team that's not going to. i don't see the gray area.

[Halodays]

4 hours ago, CanadianHalo said:

When Maddon talked about finding pitching he mentioned guys who can go out and give you innings. Work horses. Robbie Ray is not that guy. 

Wow that means they would have to be good and not getting pulled after two innings of shit.

[Stradling]

41 minutes ago, ukyah said:

 

why do so many keep acting like the mets are going to trade their starters? they've said they're not going to, and they've behaved like a team that's not going to. i don't see the gray area.

I’d completely agree except they went out and signed 2 or 3 starters, so asking if they might be interested in trading someone isn’t out of the question.

[Jeff Fletcher]

3 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

I’m a fan of bringing Grey on as well.  It does seem like the prices for these guys are pretty wild right now.   I think we need to resign ourselves to the reality that we may only get 1 guy.  

Right now they have Ohtani, Heaney, Canning, Bundy. 
 

Adding a guy to the front of that is mandatory, and I think they will. I think it’ll be Keuchel but I am not sure. 
 

But after that most of the options are just more guys who are 3-5 starters (Ray, Archer, Quintana, Teheran, Miley, etc), which is pretty much what Heaney, Canning and Bundy are.

Obviously it’s better to have more, but I don’t think the overall outlook changes that much. 
 

By the way, I also really like Sandoval. And think there may be hope for Suarez since he pitched at 21 and was tipping his pitches and apparently didn’t really mesh with Doug White. 
 

The point is they need one pitcher, and after that I think they can be selective and go for some value or upside. 

[Troll Daddy]

Rengifo is expendable and not that special imo. I’ve read the DBacks are looking for controllable starting pitching in return. 

[UndertheHalo]

Chris Archer is reclamation project that I’d be excited about.  Good call @Jeff Fletcher

[ettin]

Let me put this a different way: If I were a GM and I needed a 2B what compelling reason would I have to trade for Luis Rengifo rather than signing any one of Eric Sogard, Brad Miller, or Brock Holt, who all outperformed Rengifo on a WAR per game basis in 2019?

I am not saying that Luis does not have value, he does because of his League minimum controllable seasons (three) plus the likelihood he would be worth keeping in at least his 1st and possibly 2nd year of arbitration control but he will have to improve a bit more to have value in that 2nd or 3rd year of arbitration. There are certainly teams that would love to have Rengifo because of his ability to play SS too. I am just unsure of how much total value that adds up to in comparison to what a team can sign on the open market or even through trade. Brad Miller was just paid $1M for the 2019 season and he produced a nearly identical amount of WAR to Rengifo. Everything rides on Luis' ability to improve his game.

[Docwaukee]

29 minutes ago, ettin said:

Let me put this a different way: If I were a GM and I needed a 2B what compelling reason would I have to trade for Luis Rengifo rather than signing any one of Eric Sogard, Brad Miller, or Brock Holt, who all outperformed Rengifo on a WAR per game basis in 2019?

I am not saying that Luis does not have value, he does because of his League minimum controllable seasons (three) plus the likelihood he would be worth keeping in at least his 1st and possibly 2nd year of arbitration control but he will have to improve a bit more to have value in that 2nd or 3rd year of arbitration. There are certainly teams that would love to have Rengifo because of his ability to play SS too. I am just unsure of how much total value that adds up to in comparison to what a team can sign on the open market or even through trade. Brad Miller was just paid $1M for the 2019 season and he produced a nearly identical amount of WAR to Rengifo. Everything rides on Luis' ability to improve his game.

the compelling argument is his upside and whether you believe in it vs. him just being another guy.  Even halo fans are fairly mixed.  

Therefore, what you're getting in return is either someone with limited control or a pitcher with a similar profile ie mostly projection that you believe in yet others may not.  

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

I'm just going to pretend that Eppler is working to put together a package to snag Clevinger from Cleveland. He's going to try and disrupt the Lindor/Clevinger to the Dogs or Pads discussion thats being rumored and get Clevinger.

[totdprods]

One report today had the Angels having kicked the tires on Joe Musgrove. 

[UCLAngel]

31 minutes ago, totdprods said:

One report today had the Angels having kicked the tires on Joe Musgrove. 

It'd be great to hook up with the Pirates, but I'd like to see them pry away Mitch Keller. Pirates wouldn't want to give him up, but a package of multiple high ceiling prospects (e.g., Marsh, Jones and Paris) might get it done.