Morosi: Angels are interested in Matthew Boyd

[Claude]

1 hour ago, m0nkey said:

You guys should follow Morosi on twitter. Tweets the most useless information out there 

Exactly this. It’s very easy to tweet like Trump. Fake News is everywhere. If Eppler wasn’t interested in listening in on any available young cost-controlled starting pitchers he should be fired. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

16 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

^The point being, Robbie Ray and Mike Leake is like saying we're getting Andrew Heaney and Tyler Skaggs. I don't see them as being any better, just a bit more consistent. I'm hoping Eppler sets his sights a bit higher, if not now then at least this offseason.

Well, right now they don’t have Andrew Heaney or Tyler Skaggs. 

At this point getting pitchers of that caliber would be a pretty big upgrade.

I also think you’re underselling Ray by quite a bit. He’s just about the best case scenario. I’m not sure what pitchers you think would be aiming higher. 

[Sherlock31]

1 hour ago, m0nkey said:

You guys should follow Morosi on twitter. Tweets the most useless information out there 

Facts

[Second Base]

7 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Well, right now they don’t have Andrew Heaney or Tyler Skaggs. 

At this point getting pitchers of that caliber would be a pretty big upgrade.

I also think you’re underselling Ray by quite a bit. He’s just about the best case scenario. I’m not sure what pitchers you think would be aiming higher. 

I really like Robbie Ray. I think he'd be similar to CJ Wilson. Fans didn't like him as much but he was solid when he was healthy. He did have a hard time throwing strikes though, like Ray.

[Angelsjunky]

6 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Well, right now they don’t have Andrew Heaney or Tyler Skaggs. 

At this point getting pitchers of that caliber would be a pretty big upgrade.

I also think you’re underselling Ray by quite a bit. He’s just about the best case scenario. I’m not sure what pitchers you think would be aiming higher. 

I realize he's a long-shot, but Syndergaard for one. I'd also rather take Boyd. He has less of a track record, but much better peripherals than Ray (who walks a ton of guys) and a more upward trajectory. In other words, Boyd may be coming into his own while Ray has either stabilized or even dropped a half step from 2017.

But yeah, both would improve the rotation.

[AngelsFaninGA]

Leake would be absolutely perfect for that Piniero/Nolasco role of infuriatingly below average, wrong-side-of-thirty, durable, overpaid back-end starter. Pretty much a lock we trade some inconsequential prospect for him and then complain for 2+ years while he puts up a 4.75-5 ERA with low K numbers. 

[DailyHalo]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

How about Robby Ray and Mike Leake

just guessing with only slightly more info than you guys. 

Jeff, do you think the Angels have the salary/prospect capital too pull off a move'n half with the Diamondbacks and Blue Jays for Greinke, Ray, and Giles? 

[Jeff Fletcher]

26 minutes ago, DailyHalo said:

Jeff, do you think the Angels have the salary/prospect capital too pull off a move'n half with the Diamondbacks and Blue Jays for Greinke, Ray, and Giles? 

I don’t think so. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

I realize he's a long-shot, but Syndergaard for one. I'd also rather take Boyd. He has less of a track record, but much better peripherals than Ray (who walks a ton of guys) and a more upward trajectory. In other words, Boyd may be coming into his own while Ray has either stabilized or even dropped a half step from 2017.

But yeah, both would improve the rotation.

All of those guys have something wrong with them, so I would say they’re all in a similar bucket. 

Syndergaard: bad this year, injury prone

Boyd: very little track record of being good

Ray: walks too many, only 1 year left. 

Leake: inconsistent, at his best not as good as the others. 

But when you’re making trades, that’s who you get. I am pretty sure the Angels would take any of those guys, so it comes down to the cost for each in relation to the risk/reward/upside.

[Angelsjunky]

24 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

All of those guys have something wrong with them, so I would say they’re all in a similar bucket. 

Syndergaard: bad this year, injury prone

Boyd: very little track record of being good

Ray: walks too many, only 1 year left. 

Leake: inconsistent, at his best not as good as the others. 

But when you’re making trades, that’s who you get. I am pretty sure the Angels would take any of those guys, so it comes down to the cost for each in relation to the risk/reward/upside.

Yes, agreed, although the subtle differences matter, especially with regard to upside. Leake is least interesting because there's almost zero chance he'll be anything more than he's been, a good #4, fringe #3. Ray and Boyd are comparable in that both are solid #3s, but my preference is Boyd because of trajectory. Syndergaard has had ace-caliber performance, but a couple years later is looking more Garret Richards than Gerrit Cole.

Boyd and Ray seem like the best bets overall - they don't have the upside of Syndergaard, but far less risky; higher upside than Leake, similar floor.

[Second Base]

30 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Yes, agreed, although the subtle differences matter, especially with regard to upside. Leake is least interesting because there's almost zero chance he'll be anything more than he's been, a good #4, fringe #3. Ray and Boyd are comparable in that both are solid #3s, but my preference is Boyd because of trajectory. Syndergaard has had ace-caliber performance, but a couple years later is looking more Garret Richards than Gerrit Cole.

Boyd and Ray seem like the best bets overall - they don't have the upside of Syndergaard, but far less risky; higher upside than Leake, similar floor.

If Stroman only cost two good but not great pitching prospects, then at that price, Eppler better be all over both Boyd and Ray. 

[John Taylor]

2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

^The point being, Robbie Ray and Mike Leake is like saying we're getting Andrew Heaney and Tyler Skaggs. I don't see them as being any better, just a bit more consistent. I'm hoping Eppler sets his sights a bit higher, if not now then at least this offseason.

Honestly I'd be happy with pitchers who can eat innings without getting us in a 5-0, 6-0 hole by the second inning, and also won't need TJ surgery in a month.

[Angelsjunky]

4 minutes ago, Second Base said:

If Stroman only cost two good but not great pitching prospects, then at that price, Eppler better be all over both Boyd and Ray. 

Fangraphs has Woods-Richardson at 45+ FV, Kay at 45.

The Angels don't have a 45+ FV pitcher (Suarez is 50), but Soriano is 45. They have Jordyn Adams at 45+. Chris Rodriguez is 40+ and probably would be 45+ if he had been healthy this year.

So it is somewhat similar to Adams and Soriano, or healthy Rodriguez and Soriano. Or maybe Barria and Soriano.

[Second Base]

3 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Fangraphs has Woods-Richardson at 45+ FV, Kay at 45.

The Angels don't have a 45+ FV pitcher (Suarez is 50), but Soriano is 45. They have Jordyn Adams at 45+. Chris Rodriguez is 40+ and probably would be 45+ if he had been healthy this year.

So it is somewhat similar to Adams and Soriano, or healthy Rodriguez and Soriano. Or maybe Barria and Soriano.

I was thinking Suarez and Soriano pretty much match or exceed what the Mets gave up.  Stroman has better numbers and more of a track record than either Robbie Ray or Matthew Boyd.  If those prices remain relative, I'd expect the Angels to be able to acquire Robbie Ray for something slightly less, like Patrick Sandoval and Hector Yan, or on the position player side of things, Taylor Ward and D'Shawn Knowles.  

Boyd figures to cost more than Ray because of the years of control, but less than or equal to Stroman.  On the position player side of things, I think FG's value of Soriano, Adams and Rodriguez is distinctly low.  

[Angel Oracle]

When will the Halos ever fully develop their own pitching??????   Who was the most recent farm developed Halos pitcher to florish up here?   

Weave?   And he debuted THIRTEEN years ago.

But yet, it will be another OF/IF taken in rounds one and two in 2020?

No one in the returning rotation next season will be able to pitch over 130-140 innings. 

It could be 2022, maybe 2023, before anyone can get to 170-180 innings.

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Yes, agreed, although the subtle differences matter, especially with regard to upside.

Except those subtle differences are still only half the equation. 

You don’t get to just pick who you want. 

[tdawg87]

15 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

No one in the returning rotation next season will be able to pitch over 130-140 innings.

I don't know where you're getting this from. I'd understand Ohtani being on a strict innings limit, but if Heaney and Canning stay healthy, they should be a good bit above that. I also think Barria is capable of pitching 150 innings or so. 

Basically, if none of the returning pitchers throw more than 130 innings, sum ting wong.

[Angel Oracle]

8 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I don't know where you're getting this from. I'd understand Ohtani being on a strict innings limit, but if Heaney and Canning stay healthy, they should be a good bit above that. I also think Barria is capable of pitching 150 innings or so. 

Basically, if none of the returning pitchers throw more than 130 innings, sum ting wong.

Staying healthy with this bunch is a big question mark. 

[Angelsjunky]

16 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Except those subtle differences are still only half the equation. 

You don’t get to just pick who you want. 

OK, fair enough. This is why I don't think Syndergaard will happen. As I said, in a vaccum the Mets would probably accept Marsh + a couple solid prospects, but someone will offer more and the only way the Angels can outbid most teams is by offering Adell, which I don't think they'll do.

[Pancake Bear]

I like Boyd a lot. Not just as a pitcher, but he seems like a fantastic person. But based on the reported asking price, I’m not super confident. The only thing that gives me hope was Stroman’s return wasn’t great. Neither have a long track record of success, but Boyd has two more years of control. 

I like the idea of pursuing Greinke, since the trade cost would likely be much more affordable than any other option. My concern is that if Arte did approve getting Greinke, I’m dubious he would go all in on Cole - that would be a lot of money invested in two pitchers. Could he? Sure. Will he? I highly doubt it. 

[Angelsjunky]

33 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

When will the Halos ever fully develop their own pitching??????   Who was the most recent farm developed Halos pitcher to florish up here?   

Weave?   And he debuted THIRTEEN years ago.

But yet, it will be another OF/IF taken in rounds one and two in 2020?

No one in the returning rotation next season will be able to pitch over 130-140 innings. 

It could be 2022, maybe 2023, before anyone can get to 170-180 innings.

You're right that no one has "flourished" since Weaver, with Richards and Shoemaker being the closest to what you're asking for. Hopefully Canning and Suarez will flourish. I see Barria and Sandoval as more like #4-5s, maybe Castillo and Madero - but they're both probably #6s (depth). After that you've got Bradish, Hernandez, Soriano and Rodriguez. Hopefully some of the guys will pan out.

Its really become the case that qualifying (162 IP) is the new 200 IP, and 200 IP now quite a rarity.  In 2018, 57 pitchers qualified, and only 13 reached 200; the leader was 220.2 (Max Scherzer). In 1998, 96 pitchers qualified, 56 reached 200 IP, and the MLB leader was 268.2 (Curt Schilling).

Or to use your number, in 2018, only 50 pitchers reached 170 IP (including Heaney). That's down from 90 in 1998.

The only active pitchers to reach 250+ innings are Justin Verlander (251 in 2011), and CC Sabathia (253 in 2008). The last to pitch 300+ was Steve Carlton in 1980 (304 in 38 starts).

Pitching continues to change (I would say "evolve," but that word implies for the better - and I don't know if that is for the case). Who knows, maybe in another twenty or even ten years every team will have "double four man rotations", with each of the eight expected to pitch 3-4 innings a game, and the remaining pitchers on the roster being either mop-up in case one of the eight gets blown out (which will happen) and high leverage types. The norm would be that one or two of the mop-up guys double as position bench players, like Jared Walsh. So you might still only have a 26-man roster (next year), but with maybe 12-13 dedicated pitchers only, but 1-2 guys who are two-way, so a pitching staff of 13-15. Just speculating.

[eligrba4ever]

I'm on board with any pitcher whose arm is still attached and who hasn't missed any recent starts with forearm tightness or lower back issues. (Scherzer exempted on the back thing.)

[Vlad27Trout27]

5 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

What sets him apart is he's under control for 3 years. That adds a lot of value.

yes he does have 3 years of control, but he does not have that solid of track Record compared to Stroman, who still has an extra year of control and has shown the ability and track record to pitch at a elite level. 

[Angelsjunky]

9 minutes ago, eligrba4ever said:

I'm on board with any pitcher whose arm is still attached and who hasn't missed any recent starts with forearm tightness or lower back issues. (Scherzer exempted on the back thing.)

Your 2020 #2 Angels starter:

[tdawg87]

16 minutes ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

yes he does have 3 years of control, but he does not have that solid of track Record compared to Stroman, who still has an extra year of control and has shown the ability and track record to pitch at a elite level. 

That's certainly true, but I'd look at Boyd as a replacement for Skaggs. It's basically a wash. Ohtani and *insert FA starter here* replace Harvey and Cahill. Pretty big upgrade overall.