Will they trade Calhoun?

[Pancake Bear]

3 hours ago, eligrba said:

I agree.....an opener is masking a shitty pitcher.  I think the Angels are serious division and world series contenders with a number 2 and a bunch of number 3's or a staff of number 3's with a lock down bullpen.  Canning, Suarez, Ohtani, Heaney and a couple of number 3's would do it.  Every trade involving a number 1 seems to cost a king's ransom.  The Angels need starting pitching that is consistent and not bipolar.  I would jettison Skaggs for some pitching prospects at the deadline when J.C. Rameriz and Middleton begin pitching.

It sucks that we have to mask shitty pitchers just like those bottom dwellers, the Rays. No serious contender would ever use an opener. 

[beatlesrule]

I wanted him traded 3 years ago so of course I hope he's gone before July 31st.

[Stradling]

3 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

I wanted him traded 3 years ago so of course I hope he's gone before July 31st.

Quick tell us who you want traded now that will still be here in three years?  Fletcher?  Buttrey?  Canning?  Trout?  Suarez?   Heaney?  Rengifo?  

[totdprods]

4 hours ago, Stradling said:

Quick tell us who you want traded now that will still be here in three years?  Fletcher?  Buttrey?  Canning?  Trout?  Suarez?   Heaney?  Rengifo?  

To be fair, I also wanted Calhoun (and Richards) traded three years ago, when Eppler first started. 

I wish they would have rebuilt a little harder when Eppler first started and sold off the very few non-Trout pieces they had, but I respect that they felt they owed it to the fans, to Mike, and baseball as a whole to not totally tank and try the ‘rebuild on the fly’ approach. With the amount of young talent we’ve seen start hitting the team last year and this, it’s running on a similar timeline that a tank would have anyways. 

[floplag]

10 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The Angels are 8-5 when they use an opener. 

Theyd be pretty good if they won 8 of every 13 games. 

Im not disputing the results but i dont think anyone here would want to see that in a wild Card game, would you? 

[totdprods]

58 minutes ago, floplag said:

Im not disputing the results but i dont think anyone here would want to see that in a wild Card game, would you? 

In an ideal world, they are able to schedule things around to where they aren't relying on it in the WC game.

That said, it worked 4/24 against the Yankees pretty well. 
Bedrosian and Pena: 6 IP, 4 H, 2 R, 1 ER, 1 BB, 10 K

In addition, if anything, I'm liking the 'opener' because it seems to be helping give Bedrosian some value. 
7 'starts, 7 innings, 4 hits, 2 runs, 3 BB, 8 K.

Edited June 13, 2019 by totdprods

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

Im not disputing the results but i dont think anyone here would want to see that in a wild Card game, would you? 

If it's one of the 8 of the 13 we win I dont care either way.

[eligrba]

11 hours ago, Sean-Regan said:

It sucks that we have to mask shitty pitchers just like those bottom dwellers, the Rays. No serious contender would ever use an opener. 

I can't speak to why the Rays use an opener, but the Angels are masking shitty pitchers.  I am glad it is working, but I am not convinced it should shape an entire rotation.

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

Im not disputing the results but i dont think anyone here would want to see that in a wild Card game, would you? 

Once again it doesn’t matter, because it a wild card game everyone is on a short leash and everyone is available.  Since we don’t have an Ace no one will be facing the line up a third time unless our offense goes nuts and blows the game wide open early. 

[Stradling]

Just now, eligrba said:

I can't speak to why the Rays use an opener, but the Angels are masking shitty pitchers.  I am glad it is working, but I am not convinced it should shape an entire rotation.

No one believes it should shape an entire rotation.  We currently use it for Pena starts. I don’t believe any team other than possibly Tampa uses it for more than one starter. 

[totdprods]

Masking shitty pitchers isn’t accurate either. I think @Dochalo said it best, optimizing the matchups or something of the sort. 

[angelsnationtalk]

On 6/11/2019 at 5:38 PM, Duren, Duren said:

Until you have a sure fire replacement you don't make a deal.

Kole will probably hit around thirty homers, drive in around eighty and be a solid power threat. He is more selective at the plate and much better against lefties. He continues to be a quality fixture in the field and a mainstay for morale. 

If it's not a total rebuild, you have to make smart deals to integrate new pieces into the existing mix. I'm not sold on any of the organizational potential replacements now. Right field will become downgraded until someone equal or better comes along.

That said, Eppler needs to maximize what assets he can. But not just make a deal for the sake of shaking things up. Because of the contractual situation Calhoun seems likely to be on the block, but it better be a smart deal, because right field will become a position of weakness.

He absolutely gets traded this year. He's having a decent time at the plate and his value has raised. With Upton coming back and Goodwin/Adell hanging out, you can bet the Angels are going to get a value back from him. If not they either decline his option (which would be pointless and loss of return), or they pick up his 14M option next year which is way too much for him. The only way to get value out of him is to explore trade options come playoff time. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

He absolutely gets traded this year. He's having a decent time at the plate and his value has raised. With Upton coming back and Goodwin/Adell hanging out, you can bet the Angels are going to get a value back from him. If not they either decline his option (which would be pointless and loss of return), or they pick up his 14M option next year which is way too much for him. The only way to get value out of him is to explore trade options come playoff time. 

If the Angels are within a couple of games of the wild card they probably don’t trade him.  

[floplag]

I think the point was missed on my opener in the playoff thing...  FFS guys the one time i agree and want a pitcher and people still find a reason to bitch?  lol 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

I think the point was missed on my opener in the playoff thing...  FFS guys the one time i agree and want a pitcher and people still find a reason to bitch?  lol 

I am in favor of acquiring a top of the rotation type of arm that is under control for multiple years.  Bauer and Stroman are on the top of my wish list, depending on price.  

[Angel Oracle]

Bedrosian, the new Stanek?

7 innings, 2.57 ERA, 1.00 WHIP as an opener

Stroman has always been a big GB pitcher, and thus doesn't give up many HRs.   This season, Stroman has a solid 3.31 ERA in 81 innings, despite the 3-8 record (bad, bad, bad Jays offense).    Outside of missing about 2 months in 2018, he's been total healthy since 2016.   He's still only 28, and not a FA until after 2020.   Good time, in July, to discuss a trade with the Jays?   Bauer could end up commanding a lot more in trade pieces. 

Stroman, Heaney, Canning, Ohtani, Suarez, and either Barria, Pena, or Sandoval could be a nice 6 man rotation.   And yes, outside of Stroman, a 6 man rotation is needed to preserve pitch counts for the other 5 guys.   Maybe extend Stroman an extra 10-15 pitches per start, to utilize the extra day of rest?   

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

I am in favor of acquiring a top of the rotation type of arm that is under control for multiple years.  Bauer and Stroman are on the top of my wish list, depending on price.  

I was going to say something here about differences in contracts and values, but on looking it up aside from Bauer making 6 mil more this season, both appear to be in virtually the exact same place.  age 28, going into Arb 4 year etc... i must admit i didnt think that was the case. 

I think Bauer may be more realistic even though Tor will shop Stroman heavily i dont think we could afford the asking price without being willing to give up a Canning, Suarez, Adell type player.  Cle may be more willing due to Salary concerns if they decide to punt a bit and due to the higher cost the prospect price would be less.

Im higher on Bauer for various reasons but either would be great additions.

[floplag]

39 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Bedrosian, the new Stanek?

7 innings, 2.57 ERA, 1.00 WHIP as an opener

Stroman has always been a big GB pitcher, and thus doesn't give up many HRs.   This season, Stroman has a solid 3.31 ERA in 81 innings, despite the 3-8 record (bad, bad, bad Jays offense).    Outside of missing about 2 months in 2018, he's been total healthy since 2016.   He's still only 28, and not a FA until after 2020.   Good time, in July, to discuss a trade with the Jays?   Bauer could end up commanding a lot more in trade pieces. 

Stroman, Heaney, Canning, Ohtani, Suarez, and either Barria, Pena, or Sandoval could be a nice 6 man rotation.   And yes, outside of Stroman, a 6 man rotation is needed to preserve pitch counts for the other 5 guys.   Maybe extend Stroman an extra 10-15 pitches per start, to utilize the extra day of rest?   

I actually thought the opposite in that Stroman would cost more.  To me the truth is hes been more consistent and aside from current whip actually has better numbers ans costs less. 
The main reason i like Bauer is actually post season experience, even though not all of it was great.  This rotation is so young, its need a battle tested vet to lead it.  Stroman might be that, Bauer already is. 

[Docwaukee]

3 hours ago, totdprods said:

Masking shitty pitchers isn’t accurate either. I think @Dochalo said it best, optimizing the matchups or something of the sort. 

Yep.  

It's kinda like course management in golf.  Knowing what shots you have in your bag and couple that with what's in front of you but 3-4 shots down stream as well.  

Every starter in baseball could theoretically benefit from an opener but if it disrupts their game then it's not worth it.  But it really is using numbers to gauge your ability of creating more successful opportunities.  

Stats are a guide.  Not a crystal ball.  

[totdprods]

10 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Yep.  

It's kinda like course management in golf.  Knowing what shots you have in your bag and couple that with what's in front of you but 3-4 shots down stream as well.  

Every starter in baseball could theoretically benefit from an opener but if it disrupts their game then it's not worth it.  But it really is using numbers to gauge your ability of creating more successful opportunities.  

Stats are a guide.  Not a crystal ball.  

Ha, great analogy! I really like what it's done for Pena, and Bedrosian. If it helps those two produce slightly better results over the course of a season than it makes all the sense in the world. 

[Lou]

15 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Stats are a guide.  Not a crystal ball. 

My crystal ball tells me that  Cozart's stats mean that he will suck in the future. 

[Docwaukee]

24 minutes ago, Lou said:

My crystal ball tells me that  Cozart's stats mean that he will suck in the future. 

it's pretty obvious where the smell is coming from when someone takes a dump right next to you.  

[PattyD22]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

I am in favor of acquiring a top of the rotation type of arm that is under control for multiple years.  Bauer and Stroman are on the top of my wish list, depending on price.  

Stroman would be on the top of my list also.  I really like him.  

[PattyD22]

37 minutes ago, Lou said:

My crystal ball tells me that  Cozart's stats mean that he will suck in the future. 

Yeah, Lou.....but what do the STATS say?  They are the guide

[totdprods]

11 minutes ago, PattyD22 said:

Stroman would be on the top of my list also.  I really like him.  

Only real bummer is the Angels don't match up particularly well with the Jays. We're heavy on IF prospects like they are. They're going to want pitching, and I don't think we have quite enough to pry away Stroman without taking two steps back. 

Part of the reason Boyd appeals to me is because the Tigers are loaded with MLB-ready RHP SP prospects. They're thin on lefties so Suarez or Sandoval would have interest and could thus constitute a larger value to them in a deal, but they'd also see more value in guys like Ward, Thaiss, Rengifo, Jones, Rojas, Walsh because they aren't loaded up like the Jays. Not to mention Eppler and Avila love making big deals together. There's a good rapport there, which helps both teams in negotiations.

Boyd's also cheaper salary-wise and with a couple more years of control. 

Edited June 13, 2019 by totdprods