Are we cutting Eppler too much slack?

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

This is the first offseason where I seriously question the decision making being made by the front office. Maybe it's Arte being cheap, or maybe this is Eppler's vision. But either way, I am not sold right now.

There is a lot of counting chickens before they hatch going on. We have a few top flight players and should be spending the necessary money in order to try to win 2019 and 2020. And right now we really aren't a position to win more than 85 games.

I don’t disagree but seriously how much do you give Corbin to play here?  Or Happ?  

[floplag]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I don’t disagree but seriously how much do you give Corbin to play here?  Or Happ?  

I like the pitching moves they have made mostly as most of the top guys all had some partial concerns that didnt justify what they either have got or are rumored to get.  I think hes done ok as much as i hate 2 year deals it has a lot of upside and could work out pretty well.

Where I personally think where we have failed and gone cheap is the offense.  We should have gone harder for Ramos or be in on Grandal over Lucroy and should be looking at Moustakis/Lowrie over what weve done.

[GrittyVeterans]

8 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I don’t disagree but seriously how much do you give Corbin to play here?  Or Happ?  

At a certain point, if you keep striking out, it really doesn't matter does it?

The missed opportunities for me: Brantley, Charlie Morton, David Robertson, Wilson Ramos. They should be in on Lowrie too like you've alluded to, but who knows if they even are.

There will always be some excuse why we didn't get this guy or that guy, but those excuses don't move the needle forward. Maybe his patience will pay off, but it won't be this coming season most likely and you have 3 superstars in their prime + a very good player who is moving past his prime in Upton. I just can't get behind 2019 being another waiting year

[totdprods]

8 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

The missed opportunities for me: Brantley, Charlie Morton, David Robertson, Wilson Ramos. They should be in on Lowrie too like you've alluded to, but who knows if they even are.

And somewhere, other teams and fans say the same about Ohtani picking us and the Angels drafting Trout. I’m sure Cubs fans groaned as Felix Pena gave us a half-season of solid starts while Darvish sat on the DL making bank and Chatwood walked more than he struck out.

Baseball is mostly missed opportunities. Eppler tried for most of those names, and for well-publicized reasons, most didn’t work out. 

Moose likely wants to be in SoCal. Keuchel as well. I’m sure a number of the remaining FAs - and there are plenty - can’t afford the luxury of being as picky as those you listed, and they’re weeks away from going to that goofy misfit toys unsigned FA camp. We may see some solid additions still for bargains, and those bargains will help us afford the big moves when those times come, and we find players who have us atop their wishlist.

[GrittyVeterans]

2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

And somewhere, other teams and fans say the same about Ohtani picking us and the Angels drafting Trout. I’m sure Cubs fans groaned as Felix Pena gave us a half-season of solid starts while Darvish sat on the DL making bank and Chatwood walked more than he struck out.

Baseball is mostly missed opportunities. Eppler tried for most of those names, and for well-publicized reasons, most didn’t work out. 

Moose likely wants to be in SoCal. Keuchel as well. I’m sure a number of the remaining FAs - and there are plenty - can’t afford the luxury of being as picky as those you listed, and they’re weeks away from going to that goofy misfit toys unsigned FA camp. We may see some solid additions still for bargains, and those bargains will help us afford the big moves when those times come, and we find players who have us atop their wishlist.

More wishful thinking but I like it

[Lou]

Morton and Robertson were always going to sign with an east coast team (Morton would have stayed with Houston, too). 

Ramos wanted to play with the Mets. 

Those aren't excuses, they are facts. 

[Stradling]

Just now, floplag said:

I like the pitching moves they have made mostly as most of the top guys all had some partial concerns that didnt justify what they either have got or are rumored to get.  I think hes done ok as much as i hate 2 year deals it has a lot of upside and could work out pretty well.

Where I personally think where we have failed and gone cheap is the offense.  We should have gone harder for Ramos or be in on Grandal over Lucroy and should be looking at Moustakis/Lowrie over what weve done.

I agree on Mous and Lowrie disagree on the catching.   We offered the same deal for Ramos but he wanted to be back east.  Grandall is just asking for to much. 

[Docwaukee]

7 minutes ago, Lou said:

Morton and Robertson were always going to sign with an east coast team (Morton would have stayed with Houston, too). 

Ramos wanted to play with the Mets. 

Those aren't excuses, they are facts. 

and why would we sign Brantley?  We've got a player being paid 10mil who had a bad year and a phenom prospect to take his place.  

[Stradling]

Yep, Morton signed with a team 20-30 minutes from home with no state taxes.   Robertson was staying back east.  He actually had an offer from Boston before the Angel story came out.  He used those as leverage to get the deal with Philly.  Ramos said the Mets were his first choice.  Britton stayed with the same team.  

[floplag]

46 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I agree on Mous and Lowrie disagree on the catching.   We offered the same deal for Ramos but he wanted to be back east.  Grandall is just asking for to much. 

perhaps, we wont know what he gets till he signs but i agree hes asking for what would be an overpay.   At some point we are going to overpay someone, i would have rathered it be him if any of them is all i guess due to our overall lack of depth at the position. 

[Chuck]

Whoever between the Phillies and White Sox who miss out on Machado are said to go after Moustakas. Reason #1 why Mous hasn't signed yet.

The White Sox or Phillies will give Moustakas more years and $$$ than we will.

[UndertheHalo]

im as hopeful as the rest of you with Adell.  But man, it’s no joke that that there is a ton of faith being put into him living up to these expectations.  Really, it’s as risky as any bad contract.  Money is just money.  The Angels can’t get time back if all the waiting blows up in their faces. 

Edited January 9, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[Docwaukee]

45 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

im as hopeful as the rest of you with Adell.  But man, it’s no joke that that there is a ton of faith being put into him living up to these expectations.  Really, it’s as risky as any bad contract.  Money is just money.  The Angels can’t get time back if all the waiting blows up in their faces. 

they can't get money back either.  

[hangin n wangin]

10 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

they can't get money back either.  

[UndertheHalo]

14 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

they can't get money back either.  

I’d say the time they’re losing with their good players is a more scarce thing. 

[Pujols4MVP]

Eppler is playing the long game, he needs at least 5 years as GM before we start to wonder.

[Revad]

I'd give him two years max to make the playoffs.  What he's accomplished will definitely help the Angels for years to come, but I agree we now need a more aggressive stance to upgrading the major league team..  I'm afraid this off-season may be sunk, there's plenty of talent out there still but I'd hoped to see an big acquisition at catcher and one big pitcher and it doesn't look likely at this point.  What I wrote back around September was we'd have one major and one minor or mid-level FA signing and one major trade, with plenty of little adds.  I based that on expecting Arte.to.step up and approve the plan out of respect for Pujols and Trout as time may be running out. 

Feels a bit like Billy's just rounding out the roster and waiting for the trade deadline which isn't a terrible strategy.  If we're somehow in it, add and if not pick up some prospects.  But this has to be the last year of that from my perspective, even if it means overpaying a bit for key parts.

I do wonder if I'd be gripping if we'd overpaid for Corbin, or what my reaction would be if we signed Kimbrel.  Somewhere theres a balance but I'm feeling underwhelmed by Eppler's recent performance.

 

[floplag]

11 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

I’d say the time they’re losing with their good players is a more scarce thing. 

i literally could not agree with this more. 
I get the future plan completely, always have contrary to popular belief.
What ive never understood and still do not is sacrificing the now with the core this team has, its just not a logical baseball move.  It might be a "business of baseball" logical move but certainly not in any other capacity. 

[Tyler]

My favorite is--the Angels think its a good signing, I'm gonna have to agree with them.

 

Eppler has too much talent on the roster and in the minor leagues, as well as the financial resources, to not field a deep playoff team. 

 

This offseason is a slap in the face to Mike Trout and I wouldn't blame him if he turns down an extension and counts down till he is a FA. This is frankly embarrassing. 

[UndertheHalo]

41 minutes ago, floplag said:

i literally could not agree with this more. 
I get the future plan completely, always have contrary to popular belief.
What ive never understood and still do not is sacrificing the now with the core this team has, its just not a logical baseball move.  It might be a "business of baseball" logical move but certainly not in any other capacity. 

Like I said before it’s a tricky thing.  I think for myself i’m able to get behind slow playing it again this year.  Because A: we do have a wave of prospects on the cusp and B: the way the market has shaken out this year I’m ok with not going wild for like, Patrick Corbin.  And I didn’t want them to sign a guy like Josh Donaldson.  It’s too bad that Ramos didn’t work out.

Anyway, there’s still a lot of guys available.  And while I wouldn’t be surprised if the Angels just don’t do anything.  I don’t think that’s necessarily written in stone.  So we’ll see if these players prices start tumbling  it’ll make it pretty interesting.  

Edited January 9, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[Angel Oracle]

One would hope the prices would start to come down by February 1, since ST is just a little over a week from then.

[WeaverFever]

17 hours ago, Stradling said:

I don’t disagree but seriously how much do you give Corbin to play here?  Or Happ?  

That’s the thing here boys. What would be the greater plan? 

[Docwaukee]

who was good and healthy in 2016 and 2017 that we should have been building around at that point?  

Trout and Simmons.  Besides those two, where was the talent on offense?  for those two years, outside of those two, we had 3 seasons where a regular put up more than 1.5 WAR.   Two of those seasons were from Calhoun.  

How about starting pitching?  during that frame we had one starter season with a WAR above 1.2.  We had two other starters put up a WAR above 1.0 in those two seasons.  JC Ramirez and Ricky Nolasco. 

Where was this magical core that everyone is talking about? 

We have more of it now with Heaney and Skaggs healthy (hopefully that sticks) as well as Barria.  We still have Trout and Simmons.  We have Upton and Ohtani who are both controlled for a fairly long time.    5 of those things happened last year.  

Eppler just built a foundation out of ashes and is still framing yet everyone wants him to start picking out furniture for their room.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

On 1/7/2019 at 7:34 PM, UndertheHalo said:

My view of Eppler is a pretty positive.  But his job is changing.  When he first took over the job was to install an organizational infrastructure for acquiring and developing amateur talent.  He’s done that seemingly well.  We’ll really see in this regard once these players start being expected to get up to the majors.   So far so good tho.  

I think that aspect of the job as a principle focus is starting to shift tho.  Soon, it’s going to start being reasonable for fans to expect steps forward at the major league level.  He was great I think, with Simmons, Upton and of course Ohtani.  These were undoubtedly huge wins for the club and Eppler.  But 3 or 4 years in the GM needs to have more then 3 notches in his belt at the major league level.  As a fan, I think I’m pretty patient.  I’ve bought in on waiting for them to get their ducks lined up.  But I think that after this season.  I’m going to start wanting to see results from the Angels.  Otherwise it’ll be pretty disappointing and I think it’ll start becoming fair to question whether Epplers road map is working. 

They have prospects.  Several in the upper echelons of the system.  They have several very good players at the major league level who are in their primes.  The Angels and Eppler can’t let that slip away.  So they need to start pushing chips in and be aggressive.  Soon.  This offseason for example.  I would say that they have not been aggressive.  And I think it is fair to have this view point.  The Angels chose to do this half rebuild half compete model.  If it doesn’t work fans should be allowed to be critical.  

This team is starting to remind me a bit of the late 90's Seattle Mariners. A true power house of top tier talent, Arod, Griffey, Johnson, Martinez. All four will be in the Hall some day but it wasn't until all but Martinez had left that they had their 116 win season only to ultimately fade from relevance a few years later. How good would they have been if they could've got Ichiro a few years earlier, along with the depth of talent across the diamond that propelled that 2001 team?

Eppler has been building up the organizational talent depth but we are two years away from a Trout and Simmons free agency... potentially two years away from having to reevaluate Upton as a cornerstone player. We very well could end up graduating an excellent crop of prospects onto a team that is either getting old and expensive or which has lost its core talent.

[Chuck]

Eppler needs to shit or get off the pot. Tired of hearing we're second on many of these signings or that we're not involved at all. 

I hope that he isn't put all of his faith in the new coaching staff and Driveline shiz.