Is Adell really that good?

[Barrett]

7 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Adell's athleticism is unmatched.  There's no way he's Trout because no one is Trout.  There never was a Trout and there my never be another.  Same with Shohei and the same with Simmons.  Just unbelievably unique talent here in Anaheim and Adell will fit right in. 

As for the question, is he THAT good, I suppose I'd need you to characterize what "THAT" is exactly. 

If it's Trout, then no, Adell isn't THAT good. 

If it's Calhoun, yeah, Adell is even better than THAT. 

If it's a future all-star, then yeah, I believe Adell is THAT good. 

To me, the high end is a .290 hitter that blasts 40 HR's and steals 30 bases.  His OBP and batting average would be solidly below Trout and his defense would be about even.  That's the high end, meaning he's a perennial MVP candidate, expected to finish Top 5 each year. 

The low of course is that he's a toolsy 4th OF, because in that scenario he wouldn't have been able to make enough contact or his pitch recognition would never properly develop which would keep his BA and OBP too low.  Sort of like a less fast, but more powerful Billy Hamilton. 

The middle ground is a good every day player and occasional all-star.  I think he'll settle in as the sort that hits .260 or .270, gets on base around .330, hits 30 HR's and steals 20 bases and plays very solid defense.  Basically, Justin Upton, but faster and MUCH better defense.  Or George Springer with less on base ability and faster.  Or a more athletic, stronger Torii Hunter.  

That's what I believe Jo Adell is going to be. 

So you are saying the Angels have 3 players that have never existed in MLB history and Adell is just under that. Adell is a 30 30 home run steals guy? How many of those have their been in baseball. Simmons is the greatest shortstop in history? Wow I haven't heard this argued before. You do realize we just left an ERA that gave us Jeter, ARod, Tejada and Nomar right? 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Jeter isn't even on the map defensively. He had the good fortune of playing on several championship teams, and people remember him as being better than he was. ARod was a product of steroids. Tejada and Nomar? All time greats? Put down the crack pipe.

None of the players you named had Simmons' defensive skills.

[mulwin444]

Simmons is essentially Ozzie Smith, a HOFer, with better hitting and less speed.   

[Second Base]

41 minutes ago, Barrett said:

Just unbelievably unique talent here in Anaheim and Adell will fit right in.

I think you need to read that again.  I called Trout, Ohtani and Simmons "unbelievably unique talent".  Not sure where you got it that I was saying this world has never seen anything like Jo Adell before.  I literally compared him to Justin Upton, George Springer and Torii Hunter, three very recent players.

But yes, I do believe Trout is singularly unique in the spectrum of baseball history.  I believe Ohtani and Simmons are too.  I believe Jo Adell is a very good player and there are a lot of those in the major leagues. 

[Second Base]

20 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Simmons is essentially Ozzie Smith, a HOFer, with better hitting and less speed.   

Pretty much.  I'd love to see Ozzie Smith in his prime transplanted into today's game.  I bet he'd probably be a lot like Simmons, with less power. 

[Tank]

1 hour ago, True Grich said:

None of us really know for sure (except @Tank who is never wrong).  Even the "experts" get it wrong some of the time.  Personally, I would take the chance that he will be great and hang on to him.

i know we're not even in december yet, chuck, but this needs serious consideration for post of the year.

grich, we should have lunch some time. i'll invite alex curry along, too.

[Tank]

58 minutes ago, Barrett said:

So you are saying the Angels have 3 players that have never existed in MLB history and Adell is just under that. Adell is a 30 30 home run steals guy? How many of those have their been in baseball. Simmons is the greatest shortstop in history? Wow I haven't heard this argued before. You do realize we just left an ERA that gave us Jeter, ARod, Tejada and Nomar right? 

clearly, you're too young to have seen don kessinger play with the cubs.

[floplag]

Noone can say what he will be, but he is projected as tier one which basically means and above average to possibility star level player.
But, as you say weve heard it all so many times before only to see guys that we wouldnt trade for anyone become 4A reserves.
Call me jaded, ill admit i likely am, its hard for me to see anyone prospect as untouchable, but if we have one, its him.  Hes probably the one guy we can really afford to lose.
That having been said his numbers dipped each stop up the ladder in 18 and took a large drop once he hit AA, not what i was hoping to see.

[tdawg87]

23 minutes ago, floplag said:

That having been said his numbers dipped each stop up the ladder in 18 and took a large drop once he hit AA, not what i was hoping to see.

He was 19 years old. He was absolutely absurd at Burlington before being promoted to IE, where he was far younger than the average player, and he was GREAT. Then he got promoted to AA where he was one of the youngest players in the entire league and he still put up a very respectable .753 OPS. 

But if we're just looking at raw numbers and not considering age or upside or athleticism then Jabari Blash is our best prospect.

[Dick Enberg]

23 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

 

But if we're just looking at raw numbers and not considering age or upside or athleticism then Jabari Blash is our best prospect.

Jabari Blash for Degrom, straight up!

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

Noone can say what he will be, but he is projected as tier one which basically means and above average to possibility star level player.
But, as you say weve heard it all so many times before only to see guys that we wouldnt trade for anyone become 4A reserves.
Call me jaded, ill admit i likely am, its hard for me to see anyone prospect as untouchable, but if we have one, its him.  Hes probably the one guy we can really afford to lose.
That having been said his numbers dipped each stop up the ladder in 18 and took a large drop once he hit AA, not what i was hoping to see.

It was his first year of full season ball.   He was graduating from high school the previous June.   He finished in AA.

[Stradling]

2 hours ago, Barrett said:

So you are saying the Angels have 3 players that have never existed in MLB history and Adell is just under that. Adell is a 30 30 home run steals guy? How many of those have their been in baseball. Simmons is the greatest shortstop in history? Wow I haven't heard this argued before. You do realize we just left an ERA that gave us Jeter, ARod, Tejada and Nomar right? 

Simmons is the greatest defensive short stop in the history of the game.  

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

He was 19 years old. He was absolutely absurd at Burlington before being promoted to IE, where he was far younger than the average player, and he was GREAT. Then he got promoted to AA where he was one of the youngest players in the entire league and he still put up a very respectable .753 OPS. 

But if we're just looking at raw numbers and not considering age or upside or athleticism then Jabari Blash is our best prospect.

he was the youngest player in the league.  he was the second youngest position player prospect in baseball to get more than 20 plate appearances at AA or AAA.  He was the second youngest player in the cal league when he was in A+ ball.  

[Angelsfan1984]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Simmons is the greatest defensive short stop in the history of the game.  

[Stradling]

Just now, Angelsfan1984 said:

I stand erected 

[floplag]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

He was 19 years old. He was absolutely absurd at Burlington before being promoted to IE, where he was far younger than the average player, and he was GREAT. Then he got promoted to AA where he was one of the youngest players in the entire league and he still put up a very respectable .753 OPS. 

But if we're just looking at raw numbers and not considering age or upside or athleticism then Jabari Blash is our best prospect.

Im stating facts, that drop tempered my enthusiasm.   Wasnt the plan for him to maintain or improve?  Why else did they promote him?  
Im not suggesting he trash FFS but you cant just ignore them and pretend it didnt happen. 

[floplag]

18 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

It was his first year of full season ball.   He was graduating from high school the previous June.   He finished in AA.

im well aware of that, doesnt change the facts.  
WEll see how this year goes, im willing to chalk it up to jitters, but the facts are still the facts.
You guys act like im trashing him or saying hes done... i think any logical assessment suggests he didnt do as well as they hoped he would.

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, floplag said:

Im stating facts, that drop tempered my enthusiasm.   Wasnt the plan for him to maintain or improve?  Why else did they promote him?  
Im not suggesting he trash FFS but you cant just ignore them and pretend it didnt happen. 

They promoted him to challenge him.  

[Docwaukee]

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

Im stating facts, that drop tempered my enthusiasm.   Wasnt the plan for him to maintain or improve?  Why else did they promote him?  
Im not suggesting he trash FFS but you cant just ignore them and pretend it didnt happen. 

63 at bats in AA as a 19yo and the youngest player in the league tempered your enthusiasm?  I feel like that's pretty unreasonable.  

What did you think when Trout had a .672 ops in his first 123 at bats in the majors?  

[Stradling]

8 minutes ago, floplag said:

im well aware of that, doesnt change the facts.  
WEll see how this year goes, im willing to chalk it up to jitters, but the facts are still the facts.
You guys act like im trashing him or saying hes done... i think any logical assessment suggests he didnt do as well as they hoped he would.

No the logical assessment suggests he didn’t do as well as you had hoped he would do.  I’m sure the Angels had realistic expectations for a 19 year old at AA.  

[Docwaukee]

7 minutes ago, floplag said:

im well aware of that, doesnt change the facts.  
WEll see how this year goes, im willing to chalk it up to jitters, but the facts are still the facts.
You guys act like im trashing him or saying hes done... i think any logical assessment suggests he didnt do as well as they hoped he would.

totally disagree.  I think he far exceeded expectations at every level including his 115 wRC+ at AA (15% above league avg.)  

the more I argue this, the more I realize how freaking good he was last year.  damn.  

[floplag]

Whatever... he was god, discussion closed... lol  
I wouldnt trade him for Degrom and Realmuto...
There... better?  

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

Whatever... he was god, discussion closed... lol  
I wouldnt trade him for Degrom and Realmuto...
There... better?  

as long as you admit he will start in CF in place of Trout this year then yes, that's what we're all saying.  

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

Whatever... he was god, discussion closed... lol  
I wouldnt trade him for Degrom and Realmuto...
There... better?  

Sorry you don’t understand perspective. 

[floplag]

Just now, Stradling said:

Sorry you don’t understand perspective. 

I get it just fine.
Sorry you make no effort to see views that dont align 100% with yours.