How is this team going to be better in 2019?

[tdawg87]

12 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Can I just say that having a body to "solve" each position does not solve the probkem of the overall team being good enough to contend.

If you want a championship caliber team, you have to be willing to be critical of passable players and willing to set the bar higher.

I am all for Taylor Ward getting a look.  But at this point the notion that this guy is going to "solve" 3B for the Angels seems extremely naive. 

Why can't he solve 3B? 

I hate to pull the Trout card again but did you think he wouldn't "solve CF" in 2012? I mean eventually you gotta let your prospects fill holes. Can't just throw money at every position.

[tdawg87]

Honestly I'm just praying Pujols retires. 

He won't, at least not after this year, but man that would go such a long way towards helping the team going forward. 

[Stradling]

47 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Interesting. Do you believe it's true? Hard to imagine they would put that offer on the table and not turn around and sign Upton, given that they obviously wanted him.

I believe that Heyward was exactly what Eppler would value.  Going into that season he was a 26 year old free agent, a defensive stud that was coming off of back to back 6 WAR seasons.   He in theory was someone who could bat 2-6th in a line up.   With the Cubs, he’s been pretty bad.  

[tdawg87]

I have no idea what happened to Heyward. His K rate has been as good as it's ever been the last two years. His walk rate has been slightly down. He was a bit unlucky in 2016 but his BABIP has normalized. He's still playing elite defense, though maybe he's lost a step.

I guess it's mental? I just don't know.

[Vlad27Trout27]

I think it would be unwise for us to sign Machado, instead of paying one guy around 30 mill a year we can choose to pay 30 combined to two guys that can help our roster multiple ways. What we needed to add to this line-up are multiple guys that can get own base, both in front of trout and behind him. 

For example:

  Grandal is a perfect fit to me, he can play 1st while being the primary catcher, while he's a streaky hitter, when he;s own he can carry a team and with us he doesn't have to be the main guy hitting in the 6th or 7th spot. Price 4yrs 48 mil

  Famillia can help us with our issues of blown saves, fits perfectly in as our Closer for 5 yrs 50 mil

So in total two guys that may cost us around 22 mil next year have combine for an 4.3 war, while Machado  who singly is going to cost around 25-30 mil and has an war of 4.3 war.

With this example we save an extra 8 mil dollar to what we have already left and can be used to sign other needs

We are set in the Of, with Marsh and Adell close to being ready

1st and Dh are set, allow flecther/Ward/Rengifo and Cozart fight foe 3rd/2nd and we will have Jones in the minors hopefully ready

Starting rotation:

Top of the rotation is going to be:

Skaggs, heaney, Ohtani ( I think he'll be ready to start at the beginning of the, but can he stat healthy for the rest of the year?

followed by : Barria, Trop, Shoemaker, Canning and Suarez waiting. I think canning can be added to the front tier by the end of the season

     

[CanadianHalo]

I’m in the “Machado or bust” camp and have been for some time. Yes, I fully expect to be disappointed but like previously mentioned this is similar to the Beltre situation.

Machado is 26, fills a need that this club has never been able to fill since Glaus left. It makes too much sense. You also then have a superstar to market in case Trout does leave.

[ronaldcm]

Don't understand why everyone is still stuck on Machado? He has already said he wants to be a ss not 3rd base. So he will not be an option to sign.

[mulwin444]

And now Kimbrel just blew a save to Toronto...

Closer is a tough gig

[Docwaukee]

and our SP isn't very good.  

[mulwin444]

2 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

and our SP isn't very good.  

Eh...it's usually good.  It's just when it's not, the game is in doubt because we're not sure what offense or bullpen will show up behind it.

[stanick88]

I am also in the “let’s get machado” camp. Based on Fletchers numbers/spreadsheet, we have about 62 million room before we hit the tax threshold. And we know Eppler likes to have about 12 million extra cap to work with. That would give us about 50 million to spend. I know our actual payroll will be about 12-20 million more, so this would require moreno to push his actual payroll higher than he normally does. But with 50 million we can still sign machado, a sp (someone like Lynn) and solid reliever and still have about 12 million before the tax penalty threshold. Translates to: we have money to spend if we chose to. Also we can free up more by trading Cozart(if we sign machado) and not paying arbitration on shoemaker or others. That would give us more money to spend. 

[beatlesrule]

13 hours ago, GrittyVeterans said:

Tough to spend money when you have Pujols eating up 13% of the payroll for mediocrity. But they kind of have to

The Red Sox released Han Ram and they still owed him 15 million. Now I know that Pujols is owed way way way more but like it's already been stated, Arte is choosing to keep paying Pujos.  He paid Hamilton like 50 million or whatever to not play here.  I really think the fact that Pujols is latin means that Arte will just continue to keep him on the team.

Harper is not worth it IMO.  I was checking his numbers and he is not worth 400 million.  He's not even worth 300 million.  Machado is worth and will probably get 350 million+ but pass on Harper if he is gonna command over 300 million.

[Dtwncbad]

2 hours ago, ronaldcm said:

Don't understand why everyone is still stuck on Machado? He has already said he wants to be a ss not 3rd base. So he will not be an option to sign.

Can you honestly not see what they did?  They established him in 2018 as a viable SS and everyone already knows he can play 3B.  The idea was to increase the number of bidders for him.

He will sign with the team that is the best fit for winning and the most money.  I would love to get the betting odds on him signing somewhere to play third.  Anyone want to give me 5-1?

[mulwin444]

9 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

He will sign with the team that will pay him the most money.  

It's easier to just write this...

[Angelsjunky]

6 hours ago, mulwin444 said:

If everything goes perfectly, our rotation will be be:

Ohtani, Skaggs, Barria, Heaney, and Tropeano

While talented, none of these guys are workhorse aces...there are no Verlander's in this bunch.

They need to spend on a solid frontline starter like Corbin or Keuchel and 1 year depth like Harvey, Eovaldi, Lynn, or Hellicksom.  Then, take some of the redundant prospect currency and see if they work a trade for front line starter like DeGrom or Bumgarner.

A couple things. One, how many Verlanders are out there? Half a dozen?

Secondly, as great as Corbin has been this year, his velocity drop worries me. Keuchel is another finesse guy who could quickly become a #4, and a very expensive one.

Thirdly, teams rarely trade DeGroms and Bumgarners, and only for a bucketload of prospects or in a walk year.

But clearly the Angels need to address the starting pitching. Richards didn't work out, Ohtani is a big question mark and one bad throw from not pitching for a year and a half, and no one else is really better than a good mid-rotation guy (e.g. Skaggs, Heaney part of the time). The Angels might have to hope for the best with Canning and Suarez and go after one or two depth guys. Hopefully BIlly can pull a rabbit out of a hat.

[mulwin444]

2 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

A couple things. One, how many Verlanders are out there? Half a dozen?

Secondly, as great as Corbin has been this year, his velocity drop worries me. Keuchel is another finesse guy who could quickly become a #4, and a very expensive one.

Thirdly, teams rarely trade DeGroms and Bumgarners, and only for a bucketload of prospects or in a walk year.

But clearly the Angels need to address the starting pitching. Richards didn't work out, Ohtani is a big question mark and one bad throw from not pitching for a year and a half, and no one else is really better than a good mid-rotation guy (e.g. Skaggs, Heaney part of the time). The Angels might have to hope for the best with Canning and Suarez and go after one or two depth guys. Hopefully BIlly can pull a rabbit out of a hat.

Yeah, don't know if any of it is possible, or even reasonable, but I feel starting pitching should be the focus in the offseason followed by the BP.  We're down to Barria and Heaney as the only starting pitchers currently not DL'd that were initially counted on as depth from a count of 9 to start the season.  I like our position prospects and Eppler seems to be good at pulling BP depth from nothing but starting pitching needs attention.

[ettin]

10 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q7dlNaSqB4vip6QD88MCaahpPjiZrS7dgOam_TrElLg

I have them at 142M. Threshold is 206

I have them similar in terms of AAV:

Sub-Total	$152,434,667	$134,754,048
Benefits	$8,213,516	$8,213,516
Payouts	$500,000	$500,000
Total	$161,148,183	$143,467,564

$161M actual, $143M AAV, currently.

 

[101halo]

Haven't had a chance to read the thread, but going to assume nobody has realized the obvious:

Angel pitching will stay healthy next year. 

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, haha, you can't be fooled again. 

[Dtwncbad]

15 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Why can't he solve 3B? 

I hate to pull the Trout card again but did you think he wouldn't "solve CF" in 2012? I mean eventually you gotta let your prospects fill holes. Can't just throw money at every position.

Yes, you let prospects fill holes if it makes the team better.

The point is the Angels need more premium talent on the field to contend.

I am not optimistic that Taylor Ward is good enough to make the Angels better.

I hope I am wrong of course.

And I dont think I should have to actually run through the difference in optimism between Trout that reaches the majors as a teenager and an overdrafted, unremarkable track record prospect that is still in the minors at 24 with just a small sample window of life in his bat.

But let me repeat I want Ward to be a stud.  That's the fan part.  What a great story that would be.

If I was a GM and not a fan, Ward would be my highly reluctant fallback to a plan to bring in a premium player because MOST storylines like Ward don't pan out.

The 2018 Angels were just not good enough.  Teams that consistently run a lineup out there that have 4 holes usually don't succeed.

It is pretty fair to worry about Ward being a new body with the same problem of being a hole in the lineup.

Maybe you can't throw money at every problem.  But the actual measurement of when to throw money at a problem is dictated by specific need, how close to winning you are, age of the player you chase, and how much space you have under the luxury tax. . .

Nobody has a perfect crystal ball but I think I am pretty comfortable saying for decision making purposes that there is effectively a zero percent chance Taylor Ward delivers a season good enough to be in the top 5 of MVP consideration.

It is reasonable to expect Manny Machado to deliver a top 5 performance many times over the next 7 or 8 years.

That is a huge, huge difference for a team trying to win.

I do not want the Angels to be entirely built through free agency (and even with Machado they wouldn't be) but I don't want them to be gun shy if the fit is obvious and it is the right player at the right time.

[Angel Oracle]

15 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Honestly I'm just praying Pujols retires. 

He won't, at least not after this year, but man that would go such a long way towards helping the team going forward. 

I'll settle for retirement after 2019, and have him limited to 120 games in 2019.

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Yes, you let prospects fill holes if it makes the team better.

The point is the Angels need more premium talent on the field to contend.

I am not optimistic that Taylor Ward is good enough to make the Angels better.

I hope I am wrong of course.

And I dont think I should have to actually run through the difference in optimism between Trout that reaches the majors as a teenager and an overdrafted, unremarkable track record prospect that is still in the minors at 24 with just a small sample window of life in his bat.

But let me repeat I want Ward to be a stud.  That's the fan part.  What a great story that would be.

If I was a GM and not a fan, Ward would be my highly reluctant fallback to a plan to bring in a premium player because MOST storylines like Ward don't pan out.

The 2018 Angels were just not good enough.  Teams that consistently run a lineup out there that have 4 holes usually don't succeed.

It is pretty fair to worry about Ward being a new body with the same problem of being a hole in the lineup.

Maybe you can't throw money at every problem.  But the actual measurement of when to throw money at a problem is dictated by specific need, how close to winning you are, age of the player you chase, and how much space you have under the luxury tax. . .

Nobody has a perfect crystal ball but I think I am pretty comfortable saying for decision making purposes that there is effectively a zero percent chance Taylor Ward delivers a season good enough to be in the top 5 of MVP consideration.

It is reasonable to expect Manny Machado to deliver a top 5 performance many times over the next 7 or 8 years.

That is a huge, huge difference for a team trying to win.

I do not want the Angels to be entirely built through free agency (and even with Machado they wouldn't be) but I don't want them to be gun shy if the fit is obvious and it is the right player at the right time.

So I’ll ask again, are you ok giving Machado twice the contract you are giving Upton for similar production.  

[Dtwncbad]

2 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

I'll settle for retirement after 2019, and have him limited to 120 games in 2019.

I would settle for Pujols not retiring if the Angel ownership and management decide to put enough other talent on the field around him to make his performance irrelevant.

To do that, they first have to decide his contract is not a reason to not address other needs.

[Dtwncbad]

10 minutes ago, Stradling said:

So I’ll ask again, are you ok giving Machado twice the contract you are giving Upton for similar production.  

You dont think the next 5 or 6 years of Manny Machado will be better offensively than Upton in his 30s?

I don't care how much money these players make as long as they either are winning OR there is room under the luxury tax to address obvious needs when the team is not winning.

So I answered the two parts of your question.

You assume Machado will settle into being a .250 hitter with pop.  I think that is the bottom floor possibility and not likely.

And I dont care how much money he makes compared to Upton any more than I care that a show car owner paid twice as much to restore the dash as he did to paint the car.

I care about the final product and how good it is.

It's pro sports and the point is to win.

[Angel Oracle]

If the Halos are close to being a post-season team, is there confidence that Arte will go over the tax threshold for the right player?   

[hangin n wangin]

9 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

If the Halos are close to being a post-season team, is there confidence that Arte will go over the tax threshold for the right player?   

No.