How is this team going to be better in 2019?

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

money, /end reasonable arguments 

What is the money problem?

 $82m to spend.

[Angel Oracle]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

I’m having trouble with the position that 3B is an area of depth for the Angels.

uhhhh. No. 

If the Angels choose to spend the money and Machado wants to play 3B here.  Then X1000 that is the best case scenario. It may well be that they don’t want to spend the money though.  Considering that they probably want to commit long term to Trout and that they’re still paying Albert. 

As well as still paying Upton, and then have Simba to re-sign after 2020

[Hubs]

3 hours ago, TroutTrumbo said:

There will be a lot of competition to sign Machado. It will take an enormous amount of money to get into the bidding. I doubt that Arte will go there with the spectre of Trout’s extension needs. I think Machado, at age 26 would be a great addition and give Trout the protection in the lineup that he needs. I just don’t see Arte doing it unless Pujols retires and negotiates a buyout. 

This is a major error in calculation. Trout isn't on a rookie contract, where he is being paid peanuts and has to get a huge raise. He is currently making $34ish million per season and is the highest paid player in baseball in 2018.

If they gave him say 400/10, he'd be only effectively getting a annual 6M raise. The luxury tax value is another item, as the current contract is I think 24M per season on the luxury tax, but even then, it's not more real dollars than he's making now.

I do not think Machado will approach this number. I think he will get somewhere close to what Giancarlo got, but over 10 years instead of 13. Say 325/10.

The Angels could afford him, but will in approximately 3 seasons, have to pay Ohtani significantly more money. He will be arbitration eligible after 2019, as a likely Super 2 arbitration player, but won't command too much, maybe 6-7 in year 3, and 10-12 in year 4, etc. He is a unique case that's for sure. Luckily, Pujols contract will be running out when the Angels woudl have to sign their 3rd Superstar.

So yes, you'd have 100M likely committed to 3 players, but it is possible if they keep drawing 3M fans per year.

 

 

[Angel Oracle]

Just now, Dtwncbad said:

What is the money problem?

 $82m to spend.

Where are you getting that?   Consensus is that salary for the returning players, including arb cases, is at least $150 million ($47 million to spend). 

[hangin n wangin]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

What is the money problem?

 $82m to spend.

Yea...around 82 million, but you still have to pay the arbitration guys, like AO said.

[yamsi12]

Team will be trash in 2019 too.

[Dtwncbad]

So why not spend it on the 26 year old?

Is the better option to save that money to spend on a 31 year old free agent in some future year?

[floplag]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok, my point is simply Adell has the potential of being a star type of player, while Ward we are hoping to be an everyday third baseman.  So if the goal is to have more stars and more top end potential, then it is Machado over Harper all day long.  And if we can’t wait one year to get Adell then shame on the Angels.  

I am not calling you out, and I didn’t mean to put words in your mouth but it is my belief that one is a much better upgrade. Hell my money is on Kole having a better WAR than any in house third baseman we have in the loop for next year.  So yea I would still go with Machado and Kole over Harper and Ward

And this i agree with, the only thing i would add to that is that Ward is a year away at most and Adell is still to be determined having just reached AA and having had his numbers drop somewhat since he did. 
You are correct, im just not yet ready to bank on Adell being in Ana till 20 at the soonest  

[totdprods]

7 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

As well as still paying Upton, and then have Simba to re-sign after 2020

Don't forget potential extensions for guys like Ohtani, Skaggs, and Heaney in the not-too-distant future either. 

I just don't see the Halos being in on Machado or Harper. Arenado or a similar big name in a year or two would make more sense.

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

So why not spend it on the 26 year old?

Is the better option to save that money to spend on a 31 year old free agent in some future year?

No it's to spend it on a better 29 year old in 2019.

[Dtwncbad]

Just now, totdprods said:

Don't forget potential extensions for guys like Ohtani, Skaggs, and Heaney in the not-too-distant future either. 

I just don't see the Halos being in on Machado or Harper. Arenado or a similar big name in a year or two would make more sense.

There is no way signing a 30+ year old free agent in 3 years make more sense than signing a 26 year old free agent now while Trout is in his super prime years.

I just can't even begin to wrap my brain around that.

[hangin n wangin]

2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

No it's to spend it on a better 29 year old in 2019.

Love Arenado but those career splits are real.

[floplag]

10 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Is It?

Ward or Cozart vs. Machado?

And I think the best team is Cozart at 2B with Fletcher as utility.

So now we are comparing Ward or Fletcher everyday to Machado everyday.

Exaggeration?

And that has nothing to do with the Sherzer comment which was exaggeration.   What im comparing is the overall club makeup, not one position.   You want to look at it in that narrow a focus, sure, your right... Machado would of course be better than any other option we can trot out there.  Now what do you do with the rest of the club that still has issues you didnt address?

Hes not coming here to lose, you can bank on that, we would have to do work early in the off season to give him a reason to think this team will actually win.  Hes about to go tp the playoffs, probably the WS with the dogs, hes not walking away from that without a really good reason money or no money.  

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

There is no way signing a 30+ year old free agent in 3 years make more sense than signing a 26 year old free agent now while Trout is in his super prime years.

I just can't even begin to wrap my brain around that.

You know they'll get paid relative to age, right? 

And that the Angels will need financial flexibility to retain Trout, Simmons, Skaggs, and eventually Ohtani and Heaney, right? 

[Angel Oracle]

5 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

So why not spend it on the 26 year old?

Is the better option to save that money to spend on a 31 year old free agent in some future year?

Arenado is only 29 to start the 2020 season.

[Angel Oracle]

2 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

Love Arenado but those career splits are real.

His road numbers are solid (.850s OPS).    He definitely isn't CarGo, the ultimate Coors Canaveral guy. 

Believe me, I want Ward to work out, much like Donaldson did for the A'th.   That would free up money for other needs.

[tdawg87]

4 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

Love Arenado but those career splits are real.

He's had an OPS well above .800 on the road in each of the last 4 years.

[hangin n wangin]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

He's had an OPS well above .800 on the road in each of the last 4 years.

Over the last 4 years, yea, he's been around an .830 -.850 OPS, which is solid. It definitely is useful with his defense. I guess the question is how much is that worth? Cause we definitely won't be getting those elite Coors numbers. I'm not saying the splits are bad away from Coors, but it's relevant to look at. This team needs offense more than anything and realistically, Arenado has performed similarly to Upton's career OPS on the road (if you're counting his last 4 years). Which is fine, but it's also not an elite hitter.

[Stradling]

And Manny Machado has a career road OPS of 761

[Hubs]

FYI Machado was born July 6, 1992, so while this is technically his Age 25 season, he is one year younger than Trout who turns 27 today! David Fletcher was born in May of 1994, meaning he'll also be in his Age 24 season this year. I see him as Macier Izturis-like. Machado is two years older than Fletcher.

Taylor Ward while he is killing it with the Bat in AA and AAA this year, was born in December of 1993, meaning he turns 25 in the off season. He is effectively 18 months younger than Machado. And I'm not selling on Ward, I think a serviceable infield can be made of Ward, Rengifo, Fletcher, Cozart, Fernandez and Simmons, but... Machado is a legit superstar and has 6 years of major league experience. And Ward has yet to make the majors.

So if you can get Machado, you do it. You put Machado at 3rd, next to Simmons and Cozart at 2nd, get a Catcher who is elite defensively, and this lineup improves defensively, even with Pujols at 1st.

And offensively, he fits. Obviously. In his best years, he puts up OPS+ numbers at 132, 130, 156, etc. But he like Cozart and other guys recently did have a huge jump in his contract year, so you can be wary.

 

 

 

 

[hangin n wangin]

9 minutes ago, Stradling said:

And Manny Machado has a career road OPS of 761

Which is also something to consider, especially playing at Angel stadium.

Although, if people aren't counting Arenado's down years, they shouldn't count Machado's either. 

[Dtwncbad]

4 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

Which is also something to consider, especially playing at Angel stadium.

I certainly get the point but unless the Angels have a secret plan for a different ballpark, I think it is wise to simply pursue the best players and not be gun shy over what ballpark the Angels play in.

[totdprods]

“I’m a shortstop,” Machado said. “I play shortstop.”

That's really where I have a hard time seeing him as a fit. Not only does it go against the typical Angels mentality, but there will be plenty of teams willing to offer equivalent or even better money for him to play the position he wants to play. I'm sure we could pay him enough to play 3B, but so many other teams are willing to give him what he wants, I just can't see it being realistic. 

Unless you want to see the Angels flip Simmons for a three Top 100 prospect package built up of blue-chip SP prospects - looking at you San Diego - I just can't see this coming to be. 

[hangin n wangin]

5 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I certainly get the point but unless the Angels have a secret plan for a different ballpark, I think it is wise to simply pursue the best players and not be gun shy over what ballpark the Angels play in.

They had a plan. To draw a line on the right field wall. Didn't work this year. Maybe next year.

Obviously, I'm just trollin'. I agree for the most part. But money is still a factor.

[hangin n wangin]

Just now, totdprods said:

“I’m a shortstop,” Machado said. “I play shortstop.”

That's really where I have a hard time seeing him as a fit. Not only does it go against the typical Angels mentality, but there will be plenty of teams willing to offer equivalent or even better money for him to play the position he wants to play. I'm sure we could pay him enough to play 3B, but so many other teams are willing to give him what he wants, I just can't see it being realistic. 

Unless you want to see the Angels flip Simmons for a three Top 100 prospect package built up of blue-chip SP prospects - looking at you San Diego - I just can't see this coming to be. 

He needs to get that out of his head.