Rosenthal: Scioscia expected to step down at end of season

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 minutes ago, Tank said:

the guys who went to bed early are going to have a lot to read in this thread in the morning.

Reminds me of when Chappy told Doug Masters to go to sleep early, because they were saving his dad the next day.

[ScottT]

All this hoopla over a manager. As Huell Howser would say... uhMAYzing

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, robblin17 said:

I agree. But I also don’t think a change in voice at the head/a philosophical change in the approach to baseball will hurt because it has not been working as it currently stands. 

 

I think we are still at an impass because I think Mike is still a good voice to be heard. His teams have just lacked talent. This team this year I didn’t think would be much better than last year. I didn’t trust Cozart. I’m not a huge fan of Upton. And Pujols is aging. I thought Mike could get us to the playoffs but we wouldn’t do much damage. Then everything went awry. Team injuries hit once again. Players played like crap to start the season. Cozart. Kinsler. Calhoun. Pujols. Valbuena. Marte. Maldonado. U can’t win in this league when 5 out of the 9 players in the line up suck ass and shouldn’t be starting. 

[robblin17]

For those of you that would not mind if Sosh was here next year, what do you think is the reason/reasoning behind him not returning, assuming it’s true? 

Does Eppler want someone new and, if so, why? 

Why would Sosh be leaving if he has little to no bearing on the results of the team? 

[kevinb]

Just now, robblin17 said:

For those of you that would not mind if Sosh was here next year, what do you think is the reason/reasoning behind him not returning, assuming it’s true? 

Does Eppler want someone new and, if so, why? 

Why would Sosh be leaving if he has little to no bearing on the results of the team? 

If Mike is leaving I don’t believe it’s because Eppler wants him to leave I think if he leaves it’s because he’s tired and wants a year off or to retire. But my two cents is that Eppler signed off on Mike and that they are for lack of a better term tied at the hip and have a good relationship working and personal. 

[robblin17]

2 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

If Mike is leaving I don’t believe it’s because Eppler wants him to leave I think if he leaves it’s because he’s tired and wants a year off or to retire. But my two cents is that Eppler signed off on Mike and that they are for lack of a better term tied at the hip and have a good relationship working and personal. 

I believe this is the case as well. But, playing devil’s advocate, what if Scioscia were to coach somewhere else next year? 

[FabulousFabregas]

To me the bigger issue with Scioscia isn't years like the last couple where the team is just bad (though he isn't helping at all), it's years like 2012 and 2015 where the team was good (especially 2012, look at that roster) and should have made the playoffs, yet didn't make it. There is absolutely no excuse for the 2012 team not winning the division. The 2014 team's performance in the playoffs as well was inexcusable.

Scioscia's poor bullpen management and loyalty to veterans cost the team in those seasons.

Any other major market team would have fired him on several occasions by now, maybe even after 2010 or 2011's failures.

He was once a great manager in the 2000's, possibly the best in baseball. He began to grow complacent in the late 2000's when he became infatuated with Jeff Mathis, the suicide squeeze in the 2008 ALDS was the first big sign. It was time to turn the page a long time ago. Anybody who will miss him needs to let go of the past.

[Inside Pitch]

13 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Agreed. The roster and farm have been piss poor since 2015. The bullpen has been a mess since about 2010, save for 3 or so months in 2014.

Oh, you meant sosh.

@Jeff Fletcher has some good insight in another thread on here about the farm and roster. @Inside Pitch had some great info on how we got here.

As one of the few posters on here who routinely spends time with the guys on this team, as well as others, I laugh at a lot of the shit i read on here. 

Scioscia is the guy that makes the lineups. Period. He argues rules with umps. Period.

He doesnt draft, or develop. He had no hand in who puts in extra work, and whos out banging waitresses after a game. No hand in whos not sleeping because they knocked up the chick from hooters, whos bitching about a lineup spot because their agent wants them to get more rbi, who doesnt get along because one guy is the alpha and always makes the other guy feel like a pussy, etc etc.

You could take ANY manager in baseball, replace sosh with him, and wed have the same record. Because its trout, lesser good guys like simmons, the shell of pujols, then dogshit.

Sosh manages trout. And valbuena. 

Thats the explaination of why were a .500 team. Because trout keeps us from being horrible. If we traded trout for a pen, another 2 SPs, a leadoff hitter and 2 more MOTO guys, sosh would "manage" us a lot better...

I don't think people know how much you speak to the players and how different the perception of MS is .vs the reality of MS.   

11 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

No idea. I know he didnt like Napoli. And that in itself is a very real critique of sosh. 

That said, its something like a 2 year glance out of 20.

I think he was an idiot for the napoli situation. And had we kept naps, not been stupid when lackey hit FA, this team would have been very different.

But the overall big picture is bigger than napoli vs mathis.

Bingo.... Unfortunately for some people with MS it's always about Napoli... And for some the name change is all they care to consider when talking about Arte.   

[tomsred]

9 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

The game has been trending towards multiple front end SPs, shutdown pens, and multiple guys who hit 20 home runs.

 

 

 

 

Have we had any of that in years?

It's probably pretty clear that Eppler's emphasis has been OBP, lockdown defense, and budget bullpens with flexibility.  None of that seems to match what you have indicated what the trend is.  What's unclear is that we have been pushed into Eppler's focus because of the players we have had and their contractual commitments.  So is Billy ahead or behind the times?  Mike's job has been to make the best of what he has been given.  Maybe Mike is tired of dealing with changing strategies.

[kevinb]

Just now, robblin17 said:

I believe this is the case as well. But, playing devil’s advocate, what if Scioscia were to coach somewhere else next year? 

I think the only place he manages if he manages after the Angels would be the Dodgers. I don’t see him moving this late in his life. He still has a home in TO from what I recall reading. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

I don't think people know how much you speak to the players and how different the perception of MS is .vs the reality of MS.   

Bingo.... Unfortunately for some people with MS it's always about Napoli... And for some the name change is all they care to consider when talking about Arte.   

To add to what i mentioned about Lackey, that was reagins and maybe arte....lackey wasnt in any way being unreasonable

When that core left (lackey, naps, shields), this team lost its identity...weavs and torii were the lone holdovers. The chemistry suffered huge...

[ten ocho recon scout]

5 minutes ago, tomsred said:

It's probably pretty clear that Eppler's emphasis has been OBP, lockdown defense, and budget bullpens with flexibility.  None of that seems to match what you have indicated what the trend is.  What's unclear is that we have been pushed into Eppler's focus because of the players we have had and their contractual commitments.  So is Billy ahead or behind the times?  Mike's job has been to make the best of what he has been given.  Maybe Mike is tired of dealing with changing strategies.

Ill throw you a curveball.

Eppler has absolutely stressed defense. Beane did it years ago. The reason being, its cheaper to hire lock down defense over good pitching. 

Eppler has his hands tied. He has a bloated budget, no farm until recently, and ALL of the staff out with TJ simce he got here. So its not so much that he valued defense as much as he cant afford pitching.

As far as offense, its not that eppler values OBP. Its that every team does. But again, when you are forced to hire free agents, but have little money, you end up with stopgaps. Guys like kinsler. Cozart was basically a cheaper alternative to moustakas (who if we signed him, wouldnt have been a one year deal like KC got).

Upton has a respectable OBP. But not an elite one.

In reality, both eppler and sosh have tied hands. 

Trout got here at a horrible time. Without pujols and hamilton on the books, we could have quietly tanked for a few years and started with a fresh core...like houston. And cleveland. The cubs. Etc etc.

Look at boston. The dodgers saved them back in 2012. Had they been stuck with agon and crawfords money 2012-2016, youd see a far different team on the field today. But nobody was dumb enough to take our pujols/hamilton contracts.

 

[GrittyVeterans]

Finally the fat man is gone!!!!

[Inside Pitch]

16 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

To add to what i mentioned about Lackey, that was reagins and maybe arte....lackey wasnt in any way being unreasonable

When that core left (lackey, naps, shields), this team lost its identity...weavs and torii were the lone holdovers. The chemistry suffered huge...

MS has always been good about knowing his place when it came to certain things and he knew the best guys to police other guys are the players themselves.   The thing I've heard most from people about MS vs Naps wasn't so much that he disliked Naps as much as he felt he was too big of a slapdick for the leadership void that was created when Lackey left.   People gave Lackey shit, and the dude was easily the guy leading the party when he was in Anaheim, but that dude flipped the switch when he got to the ballpark (Weaver too).  Lackey could be counted on to get on guys If they weren't following suit, Naps not as much.

As far Sheilds goes... Everything I've ever heard is that as great as he was in the pen he was even better at keeping guys from going to far when they went on their benders.  The Dean Martin in the Angels version of the rat pack.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Inside Pitch

[ten ocho recon scout]

6 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

MS has always been good about knowing his place when it came to certain things and he knew the best guys to police other guys are the players themselves.   The thing I've heard most from people about MS vs Naps wasn't so much that he disliked Naps as much as he felt he was too big of a slapdick for the leadership void that was created when Lackey left.   People gave Lackey shit, and the dude was easily the guy leading the party when he was in Anaheim, but that dude flipped the switch when he got to the ballpark (Weaver too).  Lackey could be counted on to get on guys If they weren't following suit, Naps not as much.

As far Sheilds goes... Everything I've ever heard is that as great as he was in the pen he was even better at keeping guys from going to far when they went on their benders.  The Dean Martin in the Angels version of the rat pack.

Man, lol...nail on head!

Of the names you mentioned, I can only say Ive been near enough to say anything of a few...but coupled with what others have told me, thats spot on.

Starting with Lackey, the boston media made him in to this boogeyman. The reality (with the wife situation) was way different.

He was the alpha of the pack. When he was here, EVERYBODY was an Angel. There was no split between the SP and the pen. The hitters and the pitchers, etc. The coaches and clubbies were ANGELS. Every dude in the org was part of the "family".

The front office tried to hardball him when his contract came up. I wont go into details, but he was right to do what he did (it wasnt just money). Beltre was similar...

Weave was the holdover from that generation. In those days, you couldnt plug in your earbuds and have your own clique. Youre with us, or not...and no in between.

Some of the guys who came later couldnt deal with that. 

A few years ago i sent @Chuckster70 a pm, telling him I was around and saw q way different vibe that I hadnt seen since vlads mom was a clubhouse staple. No more cliques. The results showed in the standings. 

In regards to sosh, hes out of the loop with that kind of stuff. After games, he does his thing. If guys want to head to newport and get dinner with their boss, theyre welcome. But who wants to do that?

So what are the other guys doing? Again, back in the good times, EVERYBODY was part of the crew. 

Billy Beane used to say chemistry was imaginary. I disagree. And along those lines....look at the turnover this team has had for a decade now....hard to build a brotherhood, where you can call out your teammates away from work, when its split between old men who go home to families, and kids who only work together for a season or two at a time.

[Billy_Ball]

Scioscia will be "Co-Senior Advisor" with Bill Stoneman.  

[failos]

I’m surprised to read this. I love Sosh and I admire his leadership 

[beatlesrule]

6 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

He's a lot smarter than George Steinbrenner.

 

As for the topic of the thread, I'll believe it once it's official.

[failos]

Crazy to think how most of us will be bitching about someone who isn’t Sosh next season. 

[tdawg87]

This thread got good.

Well done, gentlemen.

Edited August 5, 2018 by tdawg87

[AngelArcher]

Great thread, would read again.

 

[Billy_Ball]

Eric Chavez?

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb-rumors-former-3b-eric-044528264.html

 

[jordan]

7 hours ago, FabulousFabregas said:

 

Hopefully the Fat Man is lying.

I imagine he’s saying this more for the players this year. He doesn’t want to give the team the feeling that he’s checked out. 

[TroutAdell]

8 hours ago, Glen said:

I like the announcement. The season is already over, and this gives the fans a chance to say goodbye on the last game, hopefully they'll have a bobblehead for him or something.

More like a bobble belly

[tdawg87]

1 hour ago, Billy_Ball said:

Eric Chavez?

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb-rumors-former-3b-eric-044528264.html

 

Is it possible for a manager to go on the DL?