Game Day Thread 7/5/2018 Angels at Mariners. Marte back. Ohtani on the bench.

[UndertheHalo]

13 minutes ago, Scioscia4MVP said:

So the solution is start Ohtani at DH & Pujols at 1B instead of Marte at 1B & Pujols at DH. They might have been in a position to win had that been the case.

I wonder what the Japanese media thinks of Scioscia not starting Ohtani at DH.

He didn’t start Ohtani today because he’s hitting like .120 against left handers.  I’d still have preferred seeing him in the line up vs Marte because I think Ohtani should be in the line up every day.   Anyway, that’s why.  Maybe because of the injury as well.  I don’t know.  We’ll see how much they use him over the next little bit. 

[Angel Oracle]

3 hours ago, 101halo said:

While funny, not true. 

Dipoto is winning because the Angels have a ton of injuries and no upper minors prospects quite ready because he traded them all and drafted like crap. Same thing will happen to the M's in a few years. 

This

I would love to have two relievers like Diaz and Pazos though.

[Angel Oracle]

4 hours ago, The Boogie Man said:

AO has a rare form of turrets which causes him to yell out things like Upton RISP Shit

One more, courtesy of Clint Eastwood....

“Can I make a statement, Upton?

Your RISP hitting and defense ain’t makin it!”

 

[Dick B Back]

Such is life as an Angel fan.

[GrittyVeterans]

Another shitty managed game by the fat man. Team is finished

[Glen]

8 hours ago, rafibomb said:

 

"Scioscia also had Shohei Ohtani available, but he said he was trying to play for the lead, and not the tie, so he wanted to save Ohtani to hit for Martín Maldonado in the No. 8 spot."

This is just dumb.

[Glen]

10 hours ago, Scioscia4MVP said:

This forum is sometimes like working at the BuyMore.....

Anyways i got to go, i got an off site install job in Paris I got to go to.

Thanks for the personal update.

[WeatherWonk]

In the end Marte didnt get a hit, but Marte also didnt leave anyone on base. Never got the chance. His first game back. I still keep playing him against lefties right now. Ohtani looks overmatched against lefties. His splits against lefties before he got here were not good. 

If we lose more ground by the end of the month, there is still two months to begin experiments like hitting Ohtani against lefties, moving Albert further down (or judicious benching), calling up new rookies.

Angels only got six hits total. Yeah, Trout got jobbed, but he should have known after the first one.

A big issue is how runners on base keep finding Albert, no matter where we put him. He probably needs to be hitting sixth. Or not at all, of course, but that would be a huge PR issue for the Angels, if they did that. It would be the only thing written about the Angels in a fading season.

One final note on this GDT. Guys, we are all feeling frustrated by the Angels play but, for Gods sake, treat your fellow AW members with a little more respect. This GDT turned into a cesspool. For my part, I just couldnt bring myself to continue last night, with all the childish posts. Make your POINT and address other's POINTS. These attacks are counterproductive to meaningful discourse about the Angels and baseball, in general. I see both sides of people's arguments, surrounded by all the name-calling, and they are usually worthy opinions to consider, even when they differ. Sometimes whether this strategy is right or that strategy is wrong is unknowable. But the attacks are a turnoff for most, I would suspect.

Disrespect solves nothing and pushes members away. Being snarky or sarcastic of an opinion is one thing but give the personal attacks a pass, man. Just not helpful. Actually detrimental to the discussion.

[Blarg]

6 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

Angels only got six hits total. Yeah, Trout got jobbed, but he should have known after the first one.

Yes, Trout should have learned the strike zone after taking the strikeout staring at that pitch. Years ago he would not have said anything on either strikeout but he also wouldn't have let it happen twice with the same pitch.

Both pitches he watched were hittable with his skills set. In fact he started the second at bat staring at that pitch being called a strike so the zone was still the same. At the very least spoil those with foul balls instead of trying to force the umpire to change his zone. 

Whether it is just frustration or he is developing an ego, this needs to change. By change he needs to turn back the clock to the hitter he was a couple years ago. 

[T.G.]

If Trout starts to expand his strike zone, he's probably not going to be successful.  That's what happened to Bryce Harper.  Harper started expanding his strike zone and has failed miserably.  Take a look at his walk rate by month this year...  His hot start went along with him taking walks. 

[Stradling]

Calling this game poorly managed by Sosh takes and puts blame on him when it was clearly on the offense last night.  People that get pissed that Ohtani didn’t hit when Valbuena did need to understand the game a little bit better or at the very least understand the team.  If you use Ohtani there and he gets out then you can’t pinch hit for Maldonado the next inning because Valbuena is playing first at that point.  Not to mention anyone want to guess how many road home runs Ohtani has this year, I will give you a hint, it is zero.  Follow that up with his sub .400 OPS on the road.  Very soon we will see AO asking Ohtani why he struggles on the road in countless threads.  Also Valbuena had two opposite feild hits yesterday which if you understand baseball will tell you he was seeing the ball well and using his hands well.  The dude is streaky, which could very well be why he was hitting.  

 

[Stradling]

Oh and that “flair for the dramatic” people praise Ohtani for, well that happened in his first few games and hasn’t really happened since, unless you count almost hitting a home run against Chapman 5 weeks ago.

[failos]

47 minutes ago, Glen said:

Thanks for the personal update.

He’s a dork lol he’s referencing the show, Chuck.

[Jeff Fletcher]

On the Ohtani-Valbuena thing, I actually stayed after in Scioscia’s office for about 5 minutes and we talked all about it. 

The expanded version of what was in the story was...

You don’t play for the tie on the road.

They had only 2 bench players who could play a position, so PH is a little tricky. 

They definitely wanted both of their LH hitters to get to bat against Colome/Diaz.

There we’re still ways they could have done this. Ohtani bats for Marte. Valbuena hits for Maldonado, and then Briceño comes in and hits in the 6 spot. If Ohtani and Kinsler had made the last 2 outs and you still wanted Valbuena to hit, you’d have had to double switch, and then Briceño goes in the 6 hole and catches the bottom of the 8th. 

I think the bottom line is Scioscia felt this was the best way to get 4 runs, not 3. It’s a pretty typical strategy to try for the lead on the road and the tie at home. 

I am not sure I agree this was best, but I do see what he was thinking. I also think it’s very likely it had no impact. Ohtani has 8 AB in the last month, so how much better is he than Valbuena right now? And you only get one shot. It’s  not like a sim running a million times. It’s why they call 55-45’s coin flips in poker.

Also, it’s not why they lost. 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Jeff Fletcher

[dprep80]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

Yes, Trout should have learned the strike zone after taking the strikeout staring at that pitch. Years ago he would not have said anything on either strikeout but he also wouldn't have let it happen twice with the same pitch.

Both pitches he watched were hittable with his skills set. In fact he started the second at bat staring at that pitch being called a strike so the zone was still the same. At the very least spoil those with foul balls instead of trying to force the umpire to change his zone. 

Whether it is just frustration or he is developing an ego, this needs to change. By change he needs to turn back the clock to the hitter he was a couple years ago. 

How could he not be frustrated..

[Angel Oracle]

38 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

On the Ohtani-Valbuena thing, I actually stayed after in Scioscia’s office for about 5 minutes and we talked all about it. 

The expanded version of what was in the story was...

You don’t play for the tie on the road.

They had only 2 bench players who could play a position, so PH is a little tricky. 

They definitely wanted both of their LH hitters to get to bat against Colome/Diaz.

There we’re still ways they could have done this. Ohtani bats for Marte. Valbuena hits for Maldonado, and then Briceño comes in and hits in the 6 spot. If Ohtani and Kinsler had made the last 2 outs and you still wanted Valbuena to hit, you’d have had to double switch, and then Briceño goes in the 6 hole and catches the bottom of the 8th. 

I think the bottom line is Scioscia felt this was the best way to get 4 runs, not 3. It’s a pretty typical strategy to try for the lead on the road and the tie at home. 

I am not sure I agree this was best, but I do see what he was thinking. I also think it’s very likely it had no impact. Ohtani has 8 AB in the last month, so how much better is he than Valbuena right now? And you only get one shot. It’s  not like a sim running a million times. It’s why they call 55-45’s coin flips in poker.

Also, it’s not why they lost. 

They lost because once again they struggled, especially with RISP, against a pus throwing LHP.   That has for years been a bugaboo with this team.

[Stradling]

11 minutes ago, dprep80 said:

How could he not be frustrated..

By swinging the bat instead of striking out?  

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, WeatherWonk said:

In the end Marte didnt get a hit, but Marte also didnt leave anyone on base. Never got the chance. His first game back. I still keep playing him against lefties right now. Ohtani looks overmatched against lefties. His splits against lefties before he got here were not good. 

If we lose more ground by the end of the month, there is still two months to begin experiments like hitting Ohtani against lefties, moving Albert further down (or judicious benching), calling up new rookies.

Angels only got six hits total. Yeah, Trout got jobbed, but he should have known after the first one.

A big issue is how runners on base keep finding Albert, no matter where we put him. He probably needs to be hitting sixth. Or not at all, of course, but that would be a huge PR issue for the Angels, if they did that. It would be the only thing written about the Angels in a fading season.

One final note on this GDT. Guys, we are all feeling frustrated by the Angels play but, for Gods sake, treat your fellow AW members with a little more respect. This GDT turned into a cesspool. For my part, I just couldnt bring myself to continue last night, with all the childish posts. Make your POINT and address other's POINTS. These attacks are counterproductive to meaningful discourse about the Angels and baseball, in general. I see both sides of people's arguments, surrounded by all the name-calling, and they are usually worthy opinions to consider, even when they differ. Sometimes whether this strategy is right or that strategy is wrong is unknowable. But the attacks are a turnoff for most, I would suspect.

Disrespect solves nothing and pushes members away. Being snarky or sarcastic of an opinion is one thing but give the personal attacks a pass, man. Just not helpful. Actually detrimental to the discussion.

+1

Everyone knows my passion carries over to sometimes venting, but only about the team and not directed to posters.   We are all unique in what we bring here, and thus AW stands out for that, amongst many reasons, against other message boards.    I ignore the attacks, not the posters, but I get where it can seem overdone to some. 

[dprep80]

3 minutes ago, The Boogie Man said:

By swinging the bat instead of striking out?  

Hard to question his plate discipline this year.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, dprep80 said:

Hard to question his plate discipline this year.

No it isn’t, but he knew he was taking a borderline pitch, this wasn’t some pitch that was 8 inches off the plate either time.  

[Dick B Back]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

On the Ohtani-Valbuena thing, I actually stayed after in Scioscia’s office for about 5 minutes and we talked all about it. 

The expanded version of what was in the story was...

You don’t play for the tie on the road.

They had only 2 bench players who could play a position, so PH is a little tricky. 

They definitely wanted both of their LH hitters to get to bat against Colome/Diaz.

There we’re still ways they could have done this. Ohtani bats for Marte. Valbuena hits for Maldonado, and then Briceño comes in and hits in the 6 spot. If Ohtani and Kinsler had made the last 2 outs and you still wanted Valbuena to hit, you’d have had to double switch, and then Briceño goes in the 6 hole and catches the bottom of the 8th. 

I think the bottom line is Scioscia felt this was the best way to get 4 runs, not 3. It’s a pretty typical strategy to try for the lead on the road and the tie at home. 

I am not sure I agree this was best, but I do see what he was thinking. I also think it’s very likely it had no impact. Ohtani has 8 AB in the last month, so how much better is he than Valbuena right now? And you only get one shot. It’s  not like a sim running a million times. It’s why they call 55-45’s coin flips in poker.

Also, it’s not why they lost. 

Again, Fletch we really appreciate the behind the scenes info you bring to AW.

I know your common sensical posts probably drive some folks here nuts, but I do thank you for all you do.

[Puget Sound Angel]

I was at the game last night. I really think Albert double play ground out in the first inning really changed the game. Bases loaded, two out and he kills us again. Did you know this was Albert's 377 double play he has grounded into? He is the all-time leader and is 27 ahead of second place finisher Cal Ripken.

That and Gordon's snag was just dirt buried on our grave. It reminded me of Fletcher's catch the night before that saved our ass.

Last chance I got to see the Angels in person for 2019.

I am sad.

[Pujols4MVP]

4 hours ago, failos said:

He’s a dork lol he’s referencing the show, Chuck.

Lol Yes.