How do we turn things around?

[Stradling]

12 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Yes and I don't constantly bash you for yours, unlike you who feels the need to hammer people who have differing opinions.

That's not logic, that's my opinion, however my opinion is based on a complete and utter lack of results year after year. 1 year sure, 2 years maybe, 8 years no way. Cut bait and find a new voice and direction because clearly something isn't working. Would your company give any employee 8 years to figure it out? Would you as another employee be good if you did your part but some guy was strung along bringing the whole ship down? You clearly have a personal connection to him and that's fine, but Scioscia isn't the Angels.

Well my company would give the managers tools to succeed.  

1 hour ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

but...but...something something something its not his fault.

Oh and hypocrite and yes I know I’m a hypocrite as well.   

Have a good day.

[Mark68]

 

[Mark68]

 

[Mark68]

3 hours ago, nando714 said:

By winning a lot more games and losing a lot less 

[Mark68]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

of course it's my opinion, I wrote it, genious 

I didn't say games count differently in the standing in April than they do in August. I disagreed with your comment that they have the same impact.  

*

 

[Angelsfan1984]

8 minutes ago, The Boogie Man said:

Well my company would give the managers tools to succeed.  

Oh and hypocrite and yes I know I’m a hypocrite as well.   

Have a good day.

How many tools does he need to competently do his job? Does he need an automated job assistant? Why not just have an algorithm put together optimal lineups and pitching changes be made using stat comparisons? That's a cop out and a bad one at that.

[Mark68]

 

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

How many tools does he need to competently do his job? Does he need an automated job assistant? Why not just have an algorithm put together optimal lineups and pitching changes be made using stat comparisons? That's a cop out and a bad one at that.

How bout we start with more than two above league average hitters and two above league average starters.  Using ERA+ and OPS+ we didn’t have that.   

He must be a helluva a manager to have the impact you pretend he has. 

[beatlesrule]

Don't worry about this team. Arte will make sure the illusion of a winner is in place for that magic number and the Angels will once again fail. 

The smart thing to do would have been putting the very best team possible around Mike Trout right after his 2012 season.  Didn't happen.

The smart thing would have been realizing you have a once in a lifetime talent playing for you and going all out as long as you have him. Didn't happen.

Since those 2 didn't happen, the smart thing to do would have been realizing your team is not good enough to get to the playoffs let alone the World Series and trading them away to build up the farm. Didn't happen.

The smart thing to do would have been calling up prospects to replace terrible players on your major league roster.  Didn't happen.

Our ORG is just not smart so we are at the mercy of Arte and his stupid decisions.  Yes, I am placing most of the blame on him.  He's the one that signed Scioscia to a 10 year extension.  He's the one that signed Pujols and Hamilton and approved Vernon Wells.  He's the one that only cares about 3 million fans.  He's pretty much responsible for the state the team is in.  Now obviously, it's not his fault Calhoun, Kinsler, Cozart and others suck but he hired the guys that signed or drafted them so he's still to blame.  He's responsible for all of the mistakes I already listed and the results have proven that.  If Arte is set in his ways, this team will not win a World Series under his ownership. 

[Angelsfan1984]

5 minutes ago, The Boogie Man said:

How bout we start with more than two above league average hitters and two above league average starters.  Using ERA+ and OPS+ we didn’t have that.   

He must be a helluva a manager to have the impact you pretend he has. 

There are really only 2 things a manager directly can control on a day to day basis. The rest of the game dictates itself. i.e. situational hitting, pitch calling, shifts...etc

1. The lineup

2. Bullpen Management

He does both of these extremely poorly. Its very easy to manage when your team puts up 10 runs, its far more difficult and extremely obvious when its a tight ball game and bad decisions are made. I'm sorry if you cannot see that when you watch. Its disgustingly obvious to me, and based on comments on gameday threads, it appears obvious to others as well.

[Angelsfan1984]

3 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Don't worry about this team. Arte will make sure the illusion of a winner is in place for that magic number and the Angels will once again fail. 

The smart thing to do would have been putting the very best team possible around Mike Trout right after his 2012 season.  Didn't happen.

The smart thing would have been realizing you have a once in a lifetime talent playing for you and going all out as long as you have him. Didn't happen.

Since those 2 didn't happen, the smart thing to do would have been realizing your team is not good enough to get to the playoffs let alone the World Series and trading them away to build up the farm. Didn't happen.

The smart thing to do would have been calling up prospects to replace terrible players on your major league roster.  Didn't happen.

Our ORG is just not smart so we are at the mercy of Arte and his stupid decisions.  Yes, I am placing most of the blame on him.  He's the one that signed Scioscia to a 10 year extension.  He's the one that signed Pujols and Hamilton and approved Vernon Wells.  He's the one that only cares about 3 million fans.  He's pretty much responsible for the state the team is in.  Now obviously, it's not his fault Calhoun, Kinsler, Cozart and others suck but he hired the guys that signed or drafted them so he's still to blame.  He's responsible for all of the mistakes I already listed and the results have proven that.  If Arte is set in his ways, this team will not win a World Series under his ownership. 

I 100% agree with this. I often fault Scioscia but the bigger picture is the guy signing the checks. You want to talk about bad contracts, how about a 10 year contract for a guy and in that time 8 and soon to be 9 of those years they will have won 0 playoff games. Arte is the owner and scioscia is the dog like Scioscia is the owner and the bad players are the dogs. This is a cultural issue that goes much deeper than a guy like Calhoun hitting .160. The people with the power to change the outcome aren't seeing it for what it is.

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

There are really only 2 things a manager directly can control on a day to day basis. The rest of the game dictates itself. i.e. situational hitting, pitch calling, shifts...etc

1. The lineup

2. Bullpen Management

He does both of these extremely poorly. Its very easy to manage when your team puts up 10 runs, its far more difficult and extremely obvious when its a tight ball game and bad decisions are made. I'm sorry if you cannot see that when you watch. Its disgustingly obvious to me, and based on comments on gameday threads, it appears obvious to others as well.

Yep, I’ll side with the guys on here I respect, you side with the other guys.  

[Stradling]

So what would your line up and rotation look like last year?

[Angelsfan1984]

1 minute ago, The Boogie Man said:

Yep, I’ll side with the guys on here I respect, you side with the other guys.  

Sounds good. Tell the cool kids club I said hi.

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Sounds good. Tell the cool kids club I said hi.

Tell the others I say hey.  Say it slow so they understand.  

[Angel Oracle]

I have to admit that sometimes Arte is still a concern.    Just want to know that he will never give out 10 year deals again, or 5 year deals to guys already declining.

Hoping Upton's struggles are just injured hand related, and not decline .  

[fan_since79]

3 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

I have to admit that sometimes Arte is still a concern.    Just want to know that he will never give out 10 year deals again, or 5 year deals to guys already declining.

Hoping Upton's struggles are just injured hand related, and not decline .  

An exception can be made for Trout.

 

[JarsOfClay]

9 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

I have to admit that sometimes Arte is still a concern.    Just want to know that he will never give out 10 year deals again, or 5 year deals to guys already declining.

Hoping Upton's struggles are just injured hand related, and not decline .  

Who the hell gives out a 10 year deal to a manager? I mean 5 years is overly generous, but 10? Seriously lol. What a Facking idiot.

And he gave him those 10 years after several failed postseason series.  Girardi and Francona both won World Series, and they were quickly fired when they no longer reached that level of success. And yet what do the angels do with Scioscia after 7 straight seasons of failed postseason success? We gotta keep this guy! Let's give him 10 years! 

[gotbeer]

 

[beatlesrule]

3 minutes ago, JarsOfClay said:

Who the hell gives out a 10 year deal to a manager? I mean 5 years is overly generous, but 10? Seriously lol. What a Facking idiot.

And he gave him those 10 years after several failed postseason series.  Girardi and Francona both won World Series, and they were quickly fired when they no longer reached that level of success. And yet what do the angels do with Scioscia after 7 straight seasons of failed postseason success? We gotta keep this guy! Let's give him 10 years! 

Stings even more when you mention Bruce Bochy.

[hangin n wangin]

Personally, I don’t even want to do anything this year. This team isn’t good enough regardless. We have good young talent.... I’m fine getting rid of the old fucks after this year and going for it in a year or two. Cause realistically.... this team has no chance. Don’t waste prospects.

[GrittyVeterans]

21 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

Personally, I don’t even want to do anything this year. This team isn’t good enough regardless. We have good young talent.... I’m fine getting rid of the old fucks after this year and going for it in a year or two. Cause realistically.... this team has no chance. Don’t waste prospects.

Agree with this. It's looking more and more like next year and the year after are our window to make a run.

Too bad Pujols will still be batting cleanup

[Pujols4MVP]

If Bedrosian was a Fireman he'd get fired for starting Fires like he does with imploding on the mound.

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Holy hell, you will find any excuse for poor performances. 

Dude...  If you think pointing out the rotation was a mess last year is an excuse....  then the problem is your line of thinking and not anyone else's.    

2 hours ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

No team has all star starters, lineup bull pen and closer but somehow teams make the playoffs every year. 8 years, 8 damn years with no playoff wins.  Stop finding every reason under the sun for why its not his fault and just accept the fact that its a cultural issue.

I'll bite.   Can you please give us a list of teams in the last century to have playoff wins despite featuring a lineup that combined for a 92 OPS+ and a rotation where the only pitcher to manage even 150 innings had an ERA+ of 86.    

Your entire point only holds if people pretend that last years team was anything other than a bad team and that given over management would have been a playoff caliber roster.

2 hours ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

They lost to the twins in the race. What about that team screams playoff caliber roster to you that the Angels didn't have? That's not logic, what you think is logic is simply your opinion. If it was logical than once in the last 8 years despite new front offices, new players, new coaching staffs would they have been able to win a playoff game. 

LOL..  Last year's Twins has the second best OPS+ in the AL.  They had a SP with a 131 ERA+ pitch 211 innings, and 3 guys who topped JC Ramirez's IP totals.   But other than that they had nothing the Angels didn't have.   

Enjoyed your synopsis of opinion .vs logic, I do hope you apply it to yourself in the future.

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

There are really only 2 things a manager directly can control on a day to day basis. The rest of the game dictates itself. i.e. situational hitting, pitch calling, shifts...etc

1. The lineup

2. Bullpen Management

He does both of these extremely poorly. Its very easy to manage when your team puts up 10 runs, its far more difficult and extremely obvious when its a tight ball game and bad decisions are made. I'm sorry if you cannot see that when you watch. Its disgustingly obvious to me, and based on comments on gameday threads, it appears obvious to others as well.

This message brought to you by the same person who argued it was clearly obvious the best choice to close out games is Jim Johnson.   Because he didn't suck once a long time ago.